Flair 58 - Page 24

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
tompoland
Supporter ♡

#231: Post by tompoland »

robeambro wrote:Tom, since you're here.. Have you ever written here on HB how you would compare a similarly-profiled (I would say identically profiled, but we know that would be impossible) a shot pulled on your DE and on your manual lever? I had some doubts a few posts above (#790014) if you could have a look at it, would be nice to have your perspective on this.
Oooh, that would be interesting. Actually I could do three:

a. Decent DE1XL (white, thanks for asking)

b. Flair Pro 2

c. ECM Synchonika (I have a flow control value fitted, although it's a bit tricky to emulate the precision of the Decent)

Challenge accepted!

I'll make a note to have a crack at this, this weekend and will report back in triplicate. Thanks for the idea!

robeambro
Supporter

#232: Post by robeambro » replying to tompoland »

Ha, I'm glad to have piqued your interest!

I'm starting to notice that even at 1:2.6, with eg 10s preinfusion, I can end up overextracting light (not Uber light) roasts on the Bianca + 64mm SSP HU + VST basket (and I have a Flair screen coming up which may just help a tiny little bit), which leads me to think that there should be no struggle whatsoever for a properly heated Flair (easier on the 58), with the right supporting equipment and prep, to handle what I drink. It's all speculation of course, and EY isn't everything, but still.

Cerini Coffee & Gifts: official US importer for Olympia Express
Sponsored by Cerini Coffee & Gifts
renatoa

#233: Post by renatoa »

Because heat never goes down... it is called convection... that's why the things have to be heated from the bottom always.
If the Flair cylinder is not heated somewhere in the shower screen area, then we have a problem.

User avatar
Flair Espresso
Sponsor

#234: Post by Flair Espresso » replying to renatoa »

not heated from shower screen area due to need to design in a way to engage smaller diameter of cylinder (ID 49.9mm) with the portafilter and press stand, and lock-in. heating mat is around 40mm wide and could only be applied where the walls of the brew cylinder straighten up. i posted some quick temp studies in the marketplace thread from a group that was preheated a little more than 10 min.

renatoa

#235: Post by renatoa »

Seen them, looks good for my royal (TM) pickiness :) Much realistic evolution than the youtube measurements.

About heating area, please have a look at OE-1 project, it is shown exploded, to a level I would like to see flair 58 :D , and you can see the channels for hot water heating the group, just above the PF bayonet mount area.

User avatar
Flair Espresso
Sponsor

#236: Post by Flair Espresso »

as i suspected, i the thermocouple was touching the screen. i ran another test where i pulled and pushed the fast response thermocouple up and down, from bottom to top of water column, to see what the differential actually was, it was not much.

here's that one

User avatar
Flair Espresso
Sponsor

#237: Post by Flair Espresso »

renatoa wrote:Seen them, looks good for my royal (TM) pickiness :) Much realistic evolution than the youtube measurements.

About heating area, please have a look at OE-1 project, it is shown exploded, to a level I would like to see flair 58 :D , and you can see the channels for hot water heating the group, just above the PF bayonet mount area.
the original design did not call for heating mat, the decision to add electronic assisted preheating only came about at the end of development when the rest of the design was locked in. it's still a design predicated on being able to make espresso using other preheat methods such as steaming the group on a kettle or using the included preheat cap.

ECM Manufacture: @ecmespresso #weliveespresso
Sponsored by ECM Manufacture
renatoa

#238: Post by renatoa »

Seen today this Pavoni transport solution...

Lever Espresso Machine Gallery

...just notifying, not intending to beat the dead horse again :)

User avatar
Brewzologist
Supporter ♡

#239: Post by Brewzologist »

Another review of the Flair 58 that includes a comparison to the Pro2. Seems like a pretty balanced assessment to me as a Pro2 owner.

COMPARISON Flair 58 Vs PRO - Is Bigger Actually Better?

halnine000

#240: Post by halnine000 »

Apparently there will be a Flair 58x. same design, cheaper and will not have any electrical component.