Eliminating spring noise on a commercial lever (Londinium R)

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Kfir

#1: Post by Kfir » Feb 25, 2017, 1:23 pm

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to share with you how I've managed to eliminate the spring noise ("groan") on my Londinium R.

If you read the L-R thread you've probably seen a few posts about it, the spring in my machine made a tiny noise when I pulled the lever and apparently it's something that is relatively common to some other commercial lever machines so I decided to try and solve it.

The method I've used was very simple and was suggested by Reiss (and mathof via PM) - to take the top half of the group and align/move the spring a bit.

When I took the top half of the group I saw that the spring was not aligned perfectly at the top, see here:

Image

So I took a big flat screwdriver and carefully pushed it from the side and moved the spring half a mm or so like this:

Image

Mounted the top half of the group back and immediately noticed the noise reduced so I took it out again and made another small adjustment.

Overall I did about 4 adjustments in total until the spring was completely silent.

Hope this will help others, I've uploaded a short video to show how quiet the spring is now:
Kfir.

Zawaya_T

#2: Post by Zawaya_T » Feb 26, 2017, 1:59 am

Thanks so much for this...I have one on the way and was kind of disappointed and worried about having to live with the noise if my machine had one..Now I feel much better!

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FotonDrv

#3: Post by FotonDrv » Feb 26, 2017, 1:00 pm

Kfir, you are fortunate that this worked for you. I have tried it every time I need to change the piston seals and some time I make it worse and other times it gets better but none of my attempts have actually resulted in making it quiet, like my original L-I was quiet.

I loved that silent pull and have been trying to achieve it ever since receiving my current Londinium machine.
That Light at the End of the Tunnel is actually a train

mathof

#4: Post by mathof » replying to FotonDrv » Feb 26, 2017, 1:19 pm

If you are not already doing this, make a wax pencil mark on the inside of the group where you rested the screwdriver. If it gets better, return to that point for the next go. If it gets worse, try another point, and another, until you find the side from which it gets better. This worked for me.

Matt

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spressomon

#5: Post by spressomon » Feb 26, 2017, 1:54 pm

Maybe Londinium owners are just noisier :D ... but has anyone gotten to the bottom of why a few units make noise and most don't? Seemingly it is a QC issue: Is it?

FWIW my former LI did not display the spring rub/interference noise.
No Espresso = Depresso

Kfir

#6: Post by Kfir » Feb 26, 2017, 3:33 pm

FotonDrv wrote:Kfir, you are fortunate that this worked for you. I have tried it every time I need to change the piston seals and some time I make it worse and other times it gets better but none of my attempts have actually resulted in making it quiet, like my original L-I was quiet.

I loved that silent pull and have been trying to achieve it ever since receiving my current Londinium machine.
It's absolutely not related to the piston seals, it's only the spring itself causing the noise while being compressed.

You need to try again, move it just a tiny bit and test.

Try to apply some oil at the top where the spring makes contact with the upper part of the group (didn't work for me but it's worth a try).

Good luck.
Kfir.

Markant

#7: Post by Markant » Feb 26, 2017, 5:02 pm

spressomon wrote:Maybe Londinium owners are just noisier :D ... but has anyone gotten to the bottom of why a few units make noise and most don't? Seemingly it is a QC issue: Is it?.
Why QC?? How does the noise effect the quality of the machine? Obviously it has no effect on the espresso, so it is irrelevant. Of course for the 'sensitive' hb-er it is very irritating! I would hate it for sure!

Returning to the question why: from the stories that it is possible to eliminate the noise, it seems that only a slight dislocation of the spring is enough. So maybe that this is caused in transport? Maybe (no! - likely!) not all springs are exactly the same? Or maybe in the Italian factory, putting together the upper part of the group 'dislocation' is just something that sometimes happens and is not tested for? (Because they would have to put the whole group together, mounting it of course as well). Or should Fracino test this? " Silence, everybody. Stop all machines! We are going to test Londinium spring lever noise!! Silence, please"

Nah, don't think so.....

RyanP

#8: Post by RyanP » Feb 26, 2017, 5:18 pm

Markant wrote:Why QC?? How does the noise effect the quality of the machine? Obviously it has no effect on the espresso, so it is irrelevant. Of course for the 'sensitive' hb-er it is very irritating! I would hate it for sure!..
If it was irrelevant there wouldn't be a thread dedicated to how to fix it. And the quality of the machine for many people, and certainly for those who enjoy the use of a lever machine, often goes beyond the quality of espresso it produces and extends to the quality of the experience one has in making the espresso. Hardly irrelevant, imo. But of course it will be a bigger deal to some than others.

Markant

#9: Post by Markant » replying to RyanP » Feb 26, 2017, 6:54 pm

Of course, you are right. I meant it is irrelevant for the quality of the espresso itself. Definitely it can be relevant for the quality of the experience: "I would hate it"! And let me add this: I would do everything to get rid of that sound which maybe is not always easy, but surely is possible.

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spressomon

#10: Post by spressomon » Feb 26, 2017, 6:59 pm

If the noise is coming from the spring rubbing on the ID of the group then its more than an "irrelevant" problem. Eventually metal-on-metal battles are won by the harder of the two. No more than I'd want the cylinder walls of any of my vehicles scored ... I certainly can't fathom anything positive, related to piston seals and their job for sealing, developing in the scenario of the spring rubbing on the ID wall of the group.
No Espresso = Depresso