Disappointing results with La Pavoni Professional and Eureka Specialita

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nm36
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#1: Post by nm36 »

Hi guys :)

I have finally been able to purchase a (hopefully) proper grinder: Eureka Mignon Specialita', which I have been using for the past week with a couple of relatively fresh beans (arabica roasted 10 days ago) and my new La Pavoni professional.

I don't know what I am doing wrong but I keep getting different and very disappointing results...
- I use a single dose and weight approximately 9-10gr of beans
- I started the first time grinding very finely but then I choked the machine so I then try to adjust it multiple times but really can't understand whether I am grinding too finely or too coarsely
- The taste is good, but generally sour
- Sometimes I grind in a way that there is literally no drop coming through when I pull the lever up, but then when I pull it down it takes the right time (20-25 secs)
- Sometimes I grind it in a way that drops start coming through after 3-4 secs after pulling the lever up
- In both cases there is obviously no crema

The main thing is that I think I make very minor adjustment between a shot and another and still I get significantly different results as per the above... not sure how I need to adjust the grinding :(
Help needed and very much appreciated!
Thanks all :)

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yakster
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#2: Post by yakster »

I would recommend that you start with the double basket with 16 - 18 grams of coffee and master that before moving on to trying to make single shots, which are much more difficult to master.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

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G.F.
Posts: 64
Joined: 9 years ago

#3: Post by G.F. »

nm36 wrote:Hi guys :) - I started the first time grinding very finely but then I choked the machine so I then try to adjust it multiple times but really can't understand whether I am grinding too finely or too coarsely - The taste is good, but generally sour
- Sometimes I grind in a way that there is literally no drop coming through when I pull the lever up, but then when I pull it down it takes the right time (20-25 secs)
- Sometimes I grind it in a way that drops start coming through after 3-4 secs after pulling the lever up
- In both cases there is obviously no crema The main thing is that I think I make very minor adjustment between a shot and another and still I get significantly different results as per the above... not sure how I need to adjust the grinding :( Help needed and very much appreciated! Thanks all :)
It's easier with double basket and when you adjust the grinder (finer/coarser) you have retention (from last dosage) that needs to be removed.

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mrgnomer
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Joined: 18 years ago

#4: Post by mrgnomer »

New grinders need to grind a bit to take the edges/'season' the burrs. I read where it could be 1 to 20 lbs. The grind won't be its best until then. Shots could be erratic.

If you're using a single basket, definitely a larger double would be easier.

Knowing what happened during the extraction is helpful. If it's pretty dry look for signs of channeling or showerscreen indentations, bang it out on a flat surface (I use a yogurt container lid) and look at the bottom for signs of uneven extraction like cracks or pin holes. If there's showerscreen indentation lower the dose if there's cracks or holes try to prep the puck more evenly. Don't grind finer if you constantly see holes, grind a bit coarser and be even with the puck preparation and try going lighter on the tamp.

Light roasts tend to extract fast, have not so much crema and taste fruity acidic. Fruity acidic might taste like sour. Sour comes from under extraction.

My pre millennium La Pavoni was a bit unforgiving when I started. It took a bit of puck prep improvement and lever pulling practice to pull consistently good shots. It made me better with levers. I found the Fellini move good for puck wetting, preinfusion and getting the most brew water into the group for a good even extraction double.
Kirk
LMWDP #116
professionals do it for the pay, amateurs do it for the love

Blernsball
Posts: 108
Joined: 2 years ago

#5: Post by Blernsball »

As others said, try doubles.

Temperature is a factor, so let the machine cool down between shots until you can manage it. Its one less variable to worry about.

What is the pressure gauge reading when you start a shot?

My method on my pre-mil is to raise the lever around .75 bar. Hold it until you see drops appear (8-10s).
Then pull smoothly down. Takes 25-35s to pull.

I would not do any double pulls or fellini moves to start with. They aren't needed and the chances of disturbing the puck are high.


Write down all your variables each time and only adjust one at a time.

nm36 (original poster)
Posts: 6
Joined: 1 year ago

#6: Post by nm36 (original poster) »

Hi all - first of all thanks a lot for all your answers and inputs! they are incredibly helpful!

I have followed your advice and pulled a few shots yesterday evening and this morning with a double porta filter (c. 17-18gr), and already seen significant improvements. The espresso has definitely more body and some sort of crema on the top (very thin layer though).
Can the absence of crema be due to not so fresh coffee beans (for these last 8-10 shots I have used medium roast brasilian beans, roasted on the 3rd of Jan)?

The other concern I still have is around the sour taste - it is still significant (not sure if it's sour or acid... but it feels sour to me).

A few more info:
- I pulled the shots at around 0.7-0.8bar
- The puck looks ok, definitely no holes, and no clear evidence of channeling. It is not dry but not extremely soaked either
- When I pull the lever up, there is absolutely no drop coming out, even if I wait for 12-15sec but when I then pull the leaver down, I do not necessarily find too much resistance. (I can pull the shots in 15-18 secs, excluding the pre-infusion time).

Again, the espresso is already much better... and much closer to a coffee bar level... but definitely not perfect.
Thoughts?

Thanks all! :)

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truemagellen
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#7: Post by truemagellen »

You beans should be fine, if anything they will get better at 12 to 15 days.

Just note you will need to tighten grind a tiny bit each or ever other day to compensate for this. Or u can dose up a tiny bit

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mrgnomer
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#8: Post by mrgnomer »

Yes, I agree. For more resistance try grinding a little finer. If you do a light tamp you could try tamping a bit harder too.

Distributing the grinds well also helps. What works well for me is tapping the portafilter to settle and level the grinds in the basket then a WDT to break up clumps and even out/ fluff up the grinds.

Crema is not always the sign of the best extraction. It depends on the bean and roast. I go by body and taste. You'll get crema from dark roasts with robusta. A medium roast Brazillian should give you crema if you increase the extraction resistance.
Kirk
LMWDP #116
professionals do it for the pay, amateurs do it for the love

nm36 (original poster)
Posts: 6
Joined: 1 year ago

#9: Post by nm36 (original poster) »

Thank you - so you are suggesting to grind a little finer and then try with harder tamp... will try this evening...

Does it make sense though that there are no drops when the lever is up for pre-infusion?

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yakster
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#10: Post by yakster »

One thing that can happen with manual levers is that you can grind too fine to be able to get a good crema from your coffee beans. This usually happens when the flow is so restricted during the pull that you don't get enough flow rate to really generate the crema. I had that problem when starting out, so it's also worth trying grinding a bit coarser too if you don't have any positive results from grinding finer.

A note about singles versus doubles. Singles can be hard to pull because there's so little coffee in the basket that proper level tamping and puck preparation requirements are much higher for a good pull. Also, with less mass in the basket the coffee will absorb the heat quicker than a double which can lead to over-extraction so you can either pull at a lower temperature or reduce or eliminate any pre-infusion from your routine with single doses as opposed to doubles. Keep this in mind once you've mastered doubles and want to try singles again. Honestly, many people toss their single baskets in the back of a drawer and never see them again.

Good luck.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

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