Differences in flavor between espresso and AeroPress - Page 2

#11: Post by **Jonk** » February 11th, 2020, 2:52 am

thirdcrackfourthwave wrote:Is [the Bellman steamer] compatible with an induction top?

It might work but the bottom is thin and concave in the middle - not made for induction so it could damage the stove worst case. The shape is also part of why it's slow on a regular electric stove, not enough contact. About 15 minutes, but plenty of steam.

#12: Post by **MK1** » February 11th, 2020, 7:32 am

drgary wrote:You can use the same brew ratio as espresso. It's just water and coffee. Premeasure. You can preinfuse by inserting the plunger and turning the AeroPress upside down or maintaining it upright on a cup.

Funny enough. I never thought about that

. I've always just used my espresso maker for espresso. I should give it a try to see how it compares. Sometimes it takes someone wiser to help challenge your thinking.

#13: Post by **jpender** » February 11th, 2020, 8:06 am

drgary wrote:You can use the same brew ratio as espresso. It's just water and coffee.

You have to increase the dose quite a lot since so much of the soluble coffee is trapped in the grounds. So it's somewhat more expensive.

It is possible to increase extraction by grinding fine and using cooler water (80°C). But you'll still have to use more coffee to obtain a shot of similar size and strength.

#14: Post by **drgary** » February 11th, 2020, 10:36 am

Fair enough. I think you would dial in one to the other until the concentration is similar. Alan Adler encouraged me to get a cheap brix meter and gave me a formula for calculating coffee solids. For our purposes here, I would go by taste.

#15: Post by **vit** » February 11th, 2020, 11:12 am

Jonk wrote:It might work but the bottom is thin and concave in the middle - not made for induction so it could damage the stove worst case. The shape is also part of why it's slow on a regular electric stove, not enough contact. About 15 minutes, but plenty of steam.

I have an induction stovetop and 2 portable induction plates (those I got as a gift). Bellman works on one of those portable induction plates and it's very fast - 3-4min from 20°C to opening pressure of security valve, which is around 5bar/150°C (depending how much water inside - I keep it about half full). Unfortunately, on induction stovetop it doesn't work. Managed to get it working by fitting the big clamp at the bottom of Bellman, wasn't very fast and looked ugly, so I didn't use it that way. I think I posted a photo in some thread a while ago.

On HiLight or classic electric plate, it's quite slow, 10-12 min from 20 to 100°C and a few minutes more to get enough pressure. But I need that much time for preparation using manual grinder and Flair anyway ...

#16: Post by **Jakuka** » February 11th, 2020, 2:38 pm

In regards to the bellman being finicky I believe that stems from new users needing to undergo a bit of a learning curve in order to use it effectively.

If the steamer is overfilled with water it will leave little room for steam to build up inside. If not enough water is used then it will be make steam but with insufficient pressure. Anything from one third full to halfway mark to seems to be ideal. A second common mistake is to start once the first strong flow of steam is observed. But it's usually just a 'wet' steam at that point. Closing the valve and allowing for more heat and pressure to buildup before starting will result in a powerful flow of 'dry' steam. And when that is observed making excellent microfoam is a breeze! However, it is still bit tricky because there is somewhat of a brief window (~1 or 2 min or so) between getting the pressure up high enough and not letting it get too high- causing the gasket to give way with a loud, thunderous pop. Then all pressure is lost and you have to start over again.

I have and love the bellman and IMO it's both an excellent and reliable way to make real microfoam. But I at the same time there is some truth to the finicky claim at least in regards to the learning curve and user friendliness. If I'm not mistaken the design of the bellman only allows for 3 or 4 bar or so of pressure before the gasket will give way. Plenty sufficient for great steaming....with the caveat of having a smaller window to work with compared to a nice double boiler machine for example, where virtually no attention must be given to maintaining a steam pressure.

More finicky? I tend to I think so. Capable of excellent, reliable, and repeatable results? Absolutely.

#17: Post by **vit** » February 11th, 2020, 2:55 pm

I didn't understand what's the problem with the gasket you have. I usually heat it up to near the opening pressure of the security valve, sometimes to that pressure, all that happened so far was that the security valve started opening ... it's not hard to estimate how high you are with the pressure from the power of the steam

When the steam is strong enough, it's definitively not wet. Milk gains only 7-8% of weight during steaming, less than with other machines ...

Trick is however in purging the air long enough before start steaming, otherwise you get cappuccino style foam. But for some, it's ok, you don't need to mix any air at the beginning of the steaming as there is enough inside the steamer, similar like in machines with panarello wand ...

#18: Post by **jpender** » February 11th, 2020, 5:06 pm

drgary wrote:Fair enough. I think you would dial in one to the other until the concentration is similar. Alan Adler encouraged me to get a cheap brix meter and gave me a formula for calculating coffee solids. For our purposes here, I would go by taste.

If you really wanted to try and match things up you would need to check the strength somehow. But the numbers are kind of grim from an economic perspective.

Just as an example... suppose you wanted to pull a 40g shot from 20g of coffee grounds. If your extraction is 20% that gives you a shot at 10% strength. Now to get the same 40g, 10% shot from an Aeropress would likely require about 50g of coffee -- more than twice as much. That's assuming you also got 20% extraction in the Aeropress. If instead you were able to get 25% extraction and have it taste good you'd still need about 31g of coffee.

Granted, the cost of an espresso machine is so much more than an Aeropress that for a while you'd be ahead, money-wise. But I doubt that "aeropresso" is so much tastier than espresso that it would be worth it in the long run.

Interesting that Adler tossed in some fresh coffee grounds to spice up his espresso-strength brew. That's very clever. Starbucks does the same thing with their instant coffee.

#19: Post by **drgary** » February 11th, 2020, 5:21 pm

This estimation of the difficulty of getting high extraction from an AeroPress is not taking into account that the AeroPress is an immersion brewer. If you want a higher extraction ratio you can grind fine and let the grounds steep before pressing out the coffee. The AeroPress also comes with a stirring rod to assist with thorough extraction.

#20: Post by **jpender** » February 11th, 2020, 6:20 pm

It's the very fact that it's an immersion brewer that makes extraction-to-the-cup less efficient. This is nothing new. No matter how much you stir a certain amount of the solubles remain in the grounds. You can't press it all out. For typical brewing it's not such a big deal but with a high coffee/water brew ratio the percentage of lost solubles is large.