Differences between new commercial spring levers

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Natret
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#1: Post by Natret »

I'm wondering if I could get some insight on the differences between commercial spring lever machines.

The list:

I'm talking about machines that are able to be purchased new, like a Bosco, Lapera DS, Londinium R24 (possibly not commercial? but I think its reputation might be enough to make it into this list), or Conti CC101. I'd also throw in LM Leva X but I'm not sure how fair of a comparison that is given the leva's distinct lever---but please feel free to comment on it! I'd also be happy to add other machines to the list if I forgot one, but I'm trying to look explicitly at commercial spring levers, so not necessarily Strietman or Argos---please include them here if anyone thinks a machine like that fits into this category. I'm hesitant to add ACS evo leva to this list too because it is so new and in some ways feels commercial, but in some ways is prosumer. If someone thinks it belongs in this comparison chat, then please chime in!

The comparison:

I'm most interested in knowing whether all of this comes down to preference or if there is something special about one commercial spring lever versus another. Is one, in particular, better at particular roasts? Does one, in particular, have more stability than the others? Is a taste profile of one know to be superior? I realize there are many differences in the internal designs of these machines, but at the level and quality that these machines are at, does it make a huge difference in the cup or in long-term maintenance or anything else?

My thoughts are that certain levers are well regarded and the differences between them are minute if not indiscernible---meaning that a choice of commercial spring lever is simply a matter of personal opinion. However, I haven't had the privilege of using all of the machines listed, so I'm curious to hear what others have to say.

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TomC
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#2: Post by TomC »

It's a bit difficult to give you specifics because your question is a bit vague.

A commercial spring lever vs a prosumer mainly draws the line between boiler size. A commercial lever is going to have a massive boiler that doesn't skip a beat with frequent pulls, steaming, etc due to it's massive boiler. But the groups and other components are otherwise very similar or the same.

The use of a commercial lever in a cafe setting is rarer to find nowadays, and maybe only the Bosco you mentioned (but in 2-3-4 group big boiler configuration) would make the list. The LaPerla is a gem and probably built better than anything else on the list, but it's not going to be found in heavy commercial use.

VBM's Pistone is a commonly found commercial lever, mainly in Italian cafes. It's simply, robust and easy to service. But the same can be said for Bosco and San Marco Leva's.
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Maniax
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#3: Post by Maniax »

I recently just watched this video of Dritan Alsela pulling 10 cappuccinos in 4min30s with a VBM pistone 3 group. It appears he uses this commercial machine in his cafe without problems.

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TomC
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#4: Post by TomC »

^ Not a 3 group.
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austted
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#5: Post by austted »

Well I recently acquired a Royal Vallelunga Leva 2 Group which I suspect was unused when I picked it up. Some details here /levers/roy ... 82663.html.

Royal is part of the BFC stable and they also produce a Classica Leva which looks the same apart from a plainer case.

They are marketed in 2 and 3 Group versions, use a Condor lever group and operate as a thermosyphon double dipper.

Here is another pic of mine.


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baldheadracing
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#6: Post by baldheadracing »

I suspect that the main factors differentiating machines are:
- available pre-infusion pressure - boiler vs. line-pressure vs. pump;
- pressure profile - one spring, two springs, differently spec'd springs; and
- temperature profile - due to many different reasons, e.g., HX size/shape; or Bosco's small reservoir behind the group; and the group itself, and how it is mounted and heated.

Then, from a usage perspective, there is flexibility, e.g., what is needed to raise brew temperatures? To lower them?

ETA: Perhaps clarify what is meant by "commercial spring lever." There are domestic machines that use a commercial spring lever group; and commercial machines that use lever groups. This can be a matter of certification for commercial use, and thus, the design necessary to obtain certification, but it can also mean differences in design to handle continuous use in a busy cafe. For example, as Tom noted, commercial machines can have bigger boilers. A domestic (prosumer) machine with a commercial lever group could have a 2l boiler and no provisions for line feed, whereas a commercial machine might have 4l of boiler capacity per group and no provisions for a reservoir (must be plumber in).
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Natret (original poster)
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#7: Post by Natret (original poster) »

Thanks for the input so far :D

Clarification

I'm ultimately trying to figure out if certain top-tier spring lever machines are a better fit for me. I'm using "commercial" as a "very loose" proxy for top-tier given my interests in consistency, ease of maintenance, ease of use, build quality, back-to-back shots, and longevity. My understanding from posts like this one (Lever Espresso Machine Gallery) is that certain machines reach a point where nothing is "missing" from the machine in terms of wishing it did something more than it currently does (yes, that's very vague). Trying to summarize, I'd like to be able to purchase a machine that stays with me 10+ years and doesn't give me FOMO. Of course, some upgraditis is inevitable, but I'm thinking that the machines I've listed will do a pretty good job of that. I'm also not equipped for a restoration project, so I added the "new' qualifier. I should have also said I'm not interested in taking up much more countertop space than a one group (unless there was a crazy deal lol).

What @baldheadracing said is very helpful, and helps narrow the post!

- available pre-infusion pressure - boiler vs. line-pressure vs. pump
==> is this just preference or does it make a difference somehow? For example, pump possibly means an easy change of pre-infusion pressure, but maybe that doesn't really matter and isn't as much of a difference in adjusting boiler pressure or line pressure?

- pressure profile - one spring, two springs, differently spec'd springs
==> is this just preference, are two springs better than one because of higher pressure possibilities? This feels like a very newbie statement, but I'm honestly curious.

- temperature profile - due to many different reasons, e.g., HX size/shape; or Bosco's small reservoir behind the group; and the group itself, and how it is mounted and heated.
==> I think this refers to the temperature over the course of a shot, and so, same question, is there a "best" here or is it just preference? Also, I'm guessing stability is the same across all of these machines, but is that true?

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baldheadracing
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#8: Post by baldheadracing »

Natret wrote:... I'd like to be able to purchase a machine that stays with me 10+ years and doesn't give me FOMO. Of course, some upgraditis is inevitable, but I'm thinking that the machines I've listed will do a pretty good job of that. I'm also not equipped for a restoration project, so I added the "new' qualifier. I should have also said I'm not interested in taking up much more countertop space than a one group (unless there was a crazy deal lol).
Sounds like you will have to first decide if you will plumb in the machine (or run it off a separate pump to simulate plumbing in, like a Flojet under counter setup). Tied in with that decision is whether you want pump noise or not (in machines with commercial groups). "Traditional leverheads" love the relative silence of a machine with no pump.

Not wanting to plumb in will eliminate almost all commercial one-group machines (LM Leva X being an exception) and pretty much all vintage or vintage-inspired one-group machines.

Note that there are companies in the business of restoring and selling vintage machines. For example, Maltoni regularly posts restored vintage commercial one-group lever machines for sale on Instagram.
Natret wrote:- available pre-infusion pressure - boiler vs. line-pressure vs. pump
==> is this just preference or does it make a difference somehow? For example, pump possibly means an easy change of pre-infusion pressure, but maybe that doesn't really matter and isn't as much of a difference in adjusting boiler pressure or line pressure?

- pressure profile - one spring, two springs, differently spec'd springs
==> is this just preference, are two springs better than one because of higher pressure possibilities? This feels like a very newbie statement, but I'm honestly curious.

- temperature profile - due to many different reasons, e.g., HX size/shape; or Bosco's small reservoir behind the group; and the group itself, and how it is mounted and heated.
==> I think this refers to the temperature over the course of a shot, and so, same question, is there a "best" here or is it just preference? Also, I'm guessing stability is the same across all of these machines, but is that true?
Just taste preference and it does make a difference, and I don't understand your question; Just taste preference, two is not better than one; Just taste preference, and stability (across shots) is not the same. :P

Seriously though, all of these topics have been extensively discussed - to start you off:
Pros and cons - Hx vs Dipper
Pressure Profiling Techniques for Spring Levers
Understanding spring lever preinfusion: when, how, and why?
How capable are the preinfusion and profiling capabilities of a spring lever?
etc.
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drgary
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#9: Post by drgary »

You can get an accumulation tank and pair it with a FloJet pump for line pressure infusion without plumbing in.
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austted
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#10: Post by austted »

Yes My Royal Vallelunga Leva also had cabling to connect to an external pump if you wanted to use it not plumbed in. I suspect for a commercial coffee cart. The parts manual also included a propane gas heating system as an accessory.

If you are thinking commercial you will also need to consider if you need a special electrical wiring connection. My two group runs of a dedicated 15 Amp 240v line.

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