Dating vintage espresso machines [ANCC, Serial] - Page 13

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pootoogoo (original poster)

#121: Post by pootoogoo (original poster) »

Thanks @condino, the San Marco numbering is still nebulous to me... but it may lead to something at some point.

This week I found an interesting piece of document related to the A.N.C.C. that I wanted to share:



It's an official 1947 decree from the National Association for the Combustion Control («Associazione Nazionale per i Controlli della Combustione», ANCC). It shows that this control (and the associated numbering) allowed the imposition of a tax on each Italian tank under pressure, from motors to coffee machines. For a coffee machine, the cost was 120 to 240 Lira in 1947.

This system was still in place in 1961, with much larger amounts (mainly due to inflation) as shown in this document broughr to my attention by Holger (@sansibar99).



This other document from 1956 show that the system was in place since 1927:


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IamOiman
Team HB

#122: Post by IamOiman »

Hi Sebastien,

I am not sure how much this will help you but I have those two machines from Portugal, a Faema Lambro and Pavoni P67/Mod 67. I do not know the date of the Lambro as it has no boiler tag, the heating element was replaced in the 80's, and the manometer is dated from 19 December 1953! However there is a number tagged 24197, and perhaps it can be treated like my Mercurio with no ANCC number but normally has a date on the manometer.



The Pavoni has a number SC 3559 on the tag and the heating elements appear original, dated from April 1967. No date is inscribed on the manometer.

-Ryan
Using a spice grinder violates the Geneva Convention
LMWDP #612

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pootoogoo (original poster)

#123: Post by pootoogoo (original poster) »

Hi Ryan, thanks for sharing your last findings.

I am a bit skeptical about the Breca manometer: it surely indicate December 1953 but, first, FAEMA was using their own manometers (or, at least, exhibiting the FAEMA logo and sometimes a handwritten date) and, more importantly, Lambro models were only produced after 1961.
The serial number 24197 will put it somewhere in 1963 (dates are really not precise in this category) which seems realistic.

For the Pavoni model, I don't have any clue on serial numbers... the ANCC number will give a precise date if you can find it somewhere on the machine.

I regret, for the sake of data collection, you will be forced to find other vintage models. :lol:

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IamOiman
Team HB

#124: Post by IamOiman »

pootoogoo wrote: I am a bit skeptical about the Breca manometer...The serial number 24197 will put it somewhere in 1963 (dates are really not precise in this category) which seems realistic.
My thoughts exactly. My original reaction was FAEMA found a random never used manometer and stuck it on this 60's machine, but if that 1953 was meant to say 1963 that would also make sense too.
pootoogoo wrote:
I regret, for the sake of data collection, you will be forced to find other vintage models. :lol:
No you're not :lol:
-Ryan
Using a spice grinder violates the Geneva Convention
LMWDP #612

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IamOiman
Team HB

#125: Post by IamOiman »

Got another one for you, Faema Urania with manometer date (March 1962) and boiler tag (18828). This seems really late, and would be the youngest Urania I've seen made outside of Spain


-Ryan
Using a spice grinder violates the Geneva Convention
LMWDP #612

Marcelnl
Supporter ♡

#126: Post by Marcelnl »

interesting, my Urania has no ANCC or any date (that I could find) and a different manometer...it even shows a different pressure recommendation (for what that is worth).
BTW: isn't that decree a ministerial (Govt) one rather than from the ANCC?

The lettering ( font) appears to be identical making me think the manufacturer is the same.

LMWDP #483

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IamOiman
Team HB

#127: Post by IamOiman »

Got the Gaggia Internazionale in my hands, I have not seen an ANCC number but the Gaggia number is 5858 and a date of Janurary 1956 on the Manometer.



4 September edit: The boiler is stamped 18 January 1956
-Ryan
Using a spice grinder violates the Geneva Convention
LMWDP #612

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pootoogoo (original poster)

#128: Post by pootoogoo (original poster) »

Thanks for the update Ryan. :wink:

That's a very interesting information: it confirms that numbers on manometers are really date (here written in the YYmm format), and also the special numbering for exported models (they have no ANCC number, but the date on the manometer).

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IamOiman
Team HB

#129: Post by IamOiman »

I forgot to show the numbers on the Classica in this thread! For the Classica, the manometer has an actual date of 1953 11 August, serial number 1734. There is no number like 131 on this guy. The boiler has a date of 3 September 1953 for comparison and no ANCC number. I think the serial number is the same numbering system used on the Internazionale, ie the Classica was made at the same factory as the Internazionale. I am curious to know why my Classica was in Italy while the Internazionale was in France

-Ryan
Using a spice grinder violates the Geneva Convention
LMWDP #612