Damn that Robot is just so uncomfortable and hard to press down... From the Robot v Flair 58 review



Is it the same video from the 1st Sprometheus video?

Paul_Pratt wrote:Is it the same video from the 1st Sprometheus video?

Hard to tell, either way he's still promoting the wrong technique.
I find it interesting that he mentions how many Robot vids he watched before adding his to the mix, yet continues to choke up on the handles, complain about the original tamper without eyeballing from the top (I assume, don't know) and continues to obsess about temperature, though I'm a dark roast user and temps are never an issue for me. I wonder if he still does the fast ramp up, and holds it at 9 bar?

Paul_Pratt wrote:Damn that Robot is just so uncomfortable and hard to press down... From the Robot v Flair 58 review

Your post made me take a look at Flair 58 for the first time and, oh boy, that thing is humongous! It spans across the entire countertop! For a split second I though it was a power tool, like a circular saw or something. I bet there are some electric manual levers that have smaller footprint than this creature, and they can probably make steam too. Anyways, it only made me like my Robot even more.

Same here! After looking at the video for Flair 58, the first thought was: not really a manual machine, not really an electric/pump machine, warms the group, but still needs the kettle...Ah, thanks but no thanks.

I discovered something today regarding my pre-heat ritual.. I've noticed that I've had to clean my red piston gasket from time to time over the past 6 months.. over that same time I've been preheating and rarely included the piston.. Today I've tracked down one issue I've had with my red gasket that has leaked from time to time, dropping water into the cup.

I preheat using the PF and the double-spouted that is taped to trap water. I put boiling water in about 1/2 up the PF. I install and immerse the piston. The hot water goes above the red gasket.

When I pull my shot, I got water spurting into the cup.. I know that if I remove and clean the gasket, my next extraction will be fine, if I don't preheat..

I suspect that heating the gasket with boiling water is causing it to expand more than the piston and the seal gets a bit compromised somehow allowing some water to escape into the cup as the piston is pressed down. I've don't remember reading anyone else who has found this issue.

I've only discovered this today, in my recent extraction.. but I remember that the seal is rock solid for many extractions and then suddenly it leaks quite a bit.. since I only preheat somewhat rarely, It might be that heating the gasket is causing the problem.

So if you are preheating the piston by using the PF and heating the silicon gasket.. I suspect you might find this issue.. I have not tried to preheat the piston by only using the basket.. but that will be my new preheat routine.

I have written a few times about it. Wiping the gasket dry seems to solve the problem for me at least. I did have leakage the other day when I let the arms drop by themselves as I was distracted by something. Pushed down hard on the levers when I noticed so the gasket would flare out and the overflow stopped.

I've noticed this as well. Not sure if it's due to a wet seal, water behind the seal, or some change in the seal properties due to soaking it in 85-100°C water for two minutes. But it's one reason why I'm interested in alternatives, either an electric heating element like in the Flair 58, or a piston that absorbs a lot less heat.

Bluenoser wrote:I discovered something today regarding my pre-heat ritual.. I've noticed that I've had to clean my red piston gasket from time to time over the past 6 months.. over that same time I've been preheating and rarely included the piston.. Today I've tracked down one issue I've had with my red gasket that has leaked from time to time, dropping water into the cup.

I preheat using the PF and the double-spouted that is taped to trap water. I put boiling water in about 1/2 up the PF. I install and immerse the piston. The hot water goes above the red gasket.

When I pull my shot, I got water spurting into the cup.. I know that if I remove and clean the gasket, my next extraction will be fine, if I don't preheat..

I suspect that heating the gasket with boiling water is causing it to expand more than the piston and the seal gets a bit compromised somehow allowing some water to escape into the cup as the piston is pressed down. I've don't remember reading anyone else who has found this issue.

I've only discovered this today, in my recent extraction.. but I remember that the seal is rock solid for many extractions and then suddenly it leaks quite a bit.. since I only preheat somewhat rarely, It might be that heating the gasket is causing the problem.

So if you are preheating the piston by using the PF and heating the silicon gasket.. I suspect you might find this issue..

I've been preheating the piston (and the gasket) using a cup for quite a while now but no leak issue so far. I don't go above the gasket, though.

I have not tried to preheat the piston by only using the basket.. but that will be my new preheat routine.

I've experimented preheating the piston+PF+basket altogether using a basket with a 58mm backflush silicone disk to seal off the bottom. It works okay but felt the piston doesn't get as hot perhaps due to the air gap. I could fill the basket all the way up to assure no gap but then it's hard to lock in the PF and makes a mess if you do lock in. Also, the piston and PF cool off a little once I disassemble and do the puck prep on the basket. YMMV.

Hi everyone! Have been using a beautiful turquoise Robot for a month, as my first espresso machine. My grinder is Comandante that I use for pour over for 2 years. Always using fresh beans. Always using paper filter. Generally using 18:40 42 44 dose.

But unfortunately, I cannot get rid of underextracted taste in my cup. Every 2 cups out of 3, has channeling problem. I don't know if the term is correct, I mean while pulling espresso, there is one main espresso stream and one external dripping little drops. I assume this is channeling.?

I will summarize what I tried up to now:

1. For leveling the grind, I rotate the tamp and then push very hard for tamping.
2. Light tamp ( caused more channeling)
3. I was pushing metal screen to puck with 2 fingers because I saw from videos.Then I thought it's unnecessary and maybe harming the well tamped puck by making a hole on the center, so I stopped making this.
4. I was using double pour technique for preheating for 30 seconds. I thought maybe while pouring out preheat water I'm harming the puck,
so I stoppped making this.
5. I start with 2 bars for 15-20 seconds for preinfusion always. Then I push to 7 bars, and then gradually decrease and finish with 4 bars at the end.


I thought that maybe this is the normal espresso taste, but no. When I accidently make a good espresso, taste is very sweet and aromatic.

Lastly I think about, maybe my arms are weak? While in 7 bars, my arms are vibrating a bit. So you can assume the pressure is going between 6,8 - 7,2 bar. Maybe this little oscillation harms the puck?

I'm waiting for your help, thanks to all.

My suggestion is to tamp however you like, but use a so called WDT tool first. A paperclip, needle or tiny whisk works in a pinch.

I always push the screen down, no issues with that. Two more things though, don't use a gooseneck spout to pour in the water (or if you do, use a paper filter underneath the screen to avoid digging a hole in the puck with turbulence) and then you can try a shot without pre-infusion or much less, which will require a coarser grind. Oscillation is perhaps not a problem but aim for 4-6 bars instead if that's easier for you.