Cafelat Robot User Experience - Page 334

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Honu

#3331: Post by Honu »

Ditto Jonk above :)

I prefer a med roast in color but am OK with darker or lighter to and get them just to mix things up more these days coffee I have been using is from dragonfly roaster and 49th parallel and a few others
I just prefer those larger doses again IMHO this is like pizza and having more sauce less cheese or the toppings etc... even if the crust is the same(beans) the outcome based on those ratios give you something different tasting


I tend to extract 1:2 or a bit over for me the time is not that crucial but seems around 30 seconds these days with 10 pre-infusion so I do not bother timing my shots really but once in awhile just to see where I am because its fun to be a coffee nerd ! but I find I do it more on feel and look which is what the robot is so awesome with feedback both physically and visual and I can change on the fly if need or want and who knows I might change again ?
as I have the machine longer but am starting to settle into bar pressure around 6-7 tops and a slow decrease through the shot to about 5-6 when I look at the gauge some mornings I play a game with myself to see how steady I can keep it for the first bit ! hahahahaha
the 6-7 its easier physically to not try to pressure up to 9 all the time that I do not think is needed again personal pref and reckon that can change as I keep playing I just love this thing !!!


Paul somewhere posted that 9 on the robot is more than 9 on some machines and one does not need to hit the 9 mark ?
I think it was based on where the pressure is measured or something ? and maybe someone can chime in correct me or point to the thread but it was something like that if I remember correct and I have found I just never need to go past that 7 the more I use it

could be fun to start a poll see what most use ? and what grams they use ?


hope that rambling helps

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VoidedTea

#3332: Post by VoidedTea »

Honu wrote:Ditto Jonk above :)
Paul somewhere posted that 9 on the robot is more than 9 on some machines and one does not need to hit the 9 mark ?
I think it was based on where the pressure is measured or something ? and maybe someone can chime in correct me or point to the thread but it was something like that if I remember correct and I have found I just never need to go past that 7 the more I use it

could be fun to start a poll see what most use ? and what grams they use ?
I think Paul meant that 9 bars is not necessary for the Robot, 6-7 bars is plenty. But I think they are the same 9 bars as on other machines. Personally, as I mentioned a few weeks ago, I stopped using bars and "go by the flow" instead. Meaning I regulate my pressure to achieve desired flow and consistency of the crema, regardless of what the pressure gauge shows. As a result, I noticed that I only need 2-4 bars max to get a great extraction. I prefer higher dose - 20-22 grams. I noticed that the older the beans, the higher dose I need to maintain the same flavour profile and avoid sourness. So for fresh beans I go with 20g, older beans 21 or sometimes 22g. I saturate the puck slowly and make sure I give enough time for the first rich black oily liquid to develop and collect in the cup, then I increase the pressure slowly until several thin streams meet in the middle into one. At which point I stop increasing the pressure and observe the colour of the stream, i may adjust my pressure here to keep the colour of the stream as dark as possible. Once it starts blonding, I stop. I agree with the note that longer saturation of the puck allows for lower pressure and more even extraction.

Jeff
Team HB

#3333: Post by Jeff »

Pressure measured in the basket (like the Robot) is higher than that of a typical pump-driven machine that measures it upstream. There is loss of pressure as the water flows through restrictions in the group. There's nothing magically good about 9 bar. There's a lot of people that find roughly 6-8 bar somewhere to produce better espresso than 9 bar. Strange things happen to the puck somewhere in the 8-10 bar range and above and can result in less enjoyable espresso in the cup.

"Go with the flow" is good advice!
★ Helpful

vladgiurgiubv

#3334: Post by vladgiurgiubv »

From my very limited experience (around 4-5kg of coffee) the advice with "go with the flow" is indeed helpful!

Looking at the pressure might distract you from the extraction, because we don't really understand how the pressure couples with the flow (because the pressure does not only drive the flow but also compresses the different layers of the coffee puck). From my experience the way you ramp up the pressure is also important for the extraction, e.g. if you ramp the pressure very fast up to say 8 bar then the flow is very slow - on the other hand if you ramp it slowly up to 8 bar, then the flow is much faster. This is maybe why the discussion about the pressure is not really helpful. If we had the exact same pressure-flow curve (like with an automatic pump-driven machine) then maybe it could be something we could discuss. But with the robot each of us pushes in his/her own way. Moreover the taste of each of us is different. So maybe the only thing one can do is do their own experiments and observations and decide what is the best coffee for him/her.

VoidedTea

#3335: Post by VoidedTea »

vladgiurgiubv wrote: Looking at the pressure might distract you from the extraction, because we don't really understand how the pressure couples with the flow (because the pressure does not only drive the flow but also compresses the different layers of the coffee puck). ... with the robot each of us pushes in his/her own way. Moreover the taste of each of us is different. So maybe the only thing one can do is do their own experiments and observations and decide what is the best coffee for him/her.
I agree, the whole process is very subjective, probably more so than with a machine. Although in practice one can compare different methods of extraction by using the same beans and adjusting other parameters, including pressure, the result would probably still be subjective due to personal taste. For example, probably no one else here extracts at 2-4 bars, like I do. Nevertheless, to my personal taste, my coffee with my beans tastes better now than when I used 8 bars and a finer grind. And no one can convince me otherwise, but myself. The only "scientific" way of finding the best method would probably be by organizing a "Robot meet" and do a side-by-side tasting of different methods and discuss the results while in the same room.

Honu

#3336: Post by Honu »

YUP on the go by the flow or feel etc...

I do think the gauge is fun and interesting to see if trying to replicate or dial in based purely on being consistent in both what pressure and consistency in that pressure or consistent ramping up or down

but for sure it's more a coffee nerd thing :) hahahaha
might give some others a rough guideline to go by though when they are newer to espresso and trying to figure it out without background in other quality machines
I do think if someone is new get the gauge and learn what it's doing not for THAT EXACT setting someone is doing but for your own consistency small detail but do think it's good to have that confirmation and helped me dial in the feel and have that consistency

a robot meetup would be so fun to do :)

also to anyone unsure about this machine don't be GET ONE !
I think folks here are the nerds of the espresso world for the most part and it can be a easy machine but does take a small bit of curve to learn but what it can give you will blow away anything in its price range AND give you so much room to grow if you really get into the nuances of espresso and will be something you will keep no matter what electric machines you get and allow your budget to get a higher end grinder which again will carry you a longer ways in the journey