Jonk wrote:Have you seen Why baristas need acupuncture needles ? I'm using 0.3mm needles, very happy with how it works.

About the filter papers beneath the puck, you made me want to experiment more with it as the only variable. Did comparisons on a traditional pump machine before and found little difference (more than the way it looks). With the Robot I've been changing other variables as well - perhaps the instant water debit and finer grinds I've been using with the Robot leads to more impact for the filters alone.

Thanks for the advice. I'm currently using 0.66mm sewing needle, but will try with thinner needles to see the difference. I do understand the way a thinner needle should improve the distribution, as I saw the difference between a paperclip and this sewing needle.

jpender wrote: Just a few photos showing what the basket looks like when you don't push the water through.

Why wouldn't you want to push the water through, like recommended in the manual? The puck is nice a dry, slides right out by itself into a knock basket, no mess. I've heard testimonials on this site that if you keep dumping your grounds into the sink, it will eventually get clogged. For all these reasons, I much prefer squeezing the water out.

vladgiurgiubv wrote:Another update: I think this is a classic case of channelitis: ground much coarser and the taste improved - more balanced and complex. The flecking is still there, but there are a lot less fines (again by eye). I just have to improve my puck preparation: I don't seem to be able to level the grounds well before tamping.

I wonder what's your extraction time. Must be over a minute with the filter and the way you grind. If that's the case, just for fun, increase the grind size until you get your extraction under 30 seconds at 8 bars. You should see big improvement in taste. Particularly with medium and medium dark roasts. And don't preheat anything, except for the cup maybe. Again, just try it for comparison if you haven't done it yet. Don't use the filter either.

VoidedTea wrote:Why wouldn't you want to push the water through, like recommended in the manual? The puck is nice a dry, slides right out by itself into a knock basket, no mess. I've heard testimonials on this site that if you keep dumping your grounds into the sink, it will eventually get clogged. For all these reasons, I much prefer squeezing the water out.

The reason is because it's faster and easier. Yes, the puck is not as clean but even a "dry" puck sometimes doesn't come out cleanly. And it never comes out 100%. I know how expensive plumbers are. But the amount of grounds left in the basket is relatively small, a fraction of the total amount of solids that make it down the sink.

While I do enjoy the process I don't like the idea of spending a lot of time making a cup of coffee. So efficiency is important to me. I keep my Robot and all my other coffee stuff in cupboards and drawers. But I can make a cup with the Robot in 5-6 minutes, including taking everything out and putting it all away again. So spending an extra 30 seconds or whatever just to have a nice looking puck and preventing a teaspoon or two of grounds from going down the sink isn't worth it -- at least for me.

jpender wrote: The reason is because it's faster and easier.

I honestly doubt that. And my pucks come out as a single piece 99% of the time with just a tiny smidge left in the basket. And even if we assume that the whole process takes a few seconds longer because we need to raise and lower Robot's arms one more time, the espresso needs to "rest" for a couple of minutes after extraction to reach its best anyway. So there is really no loss in time here no matter how you look at it.

And one more thing, which will probably sound very weird, but I like the smell of some pucks. Even my family members agreed that some of them smell like chocolate candy or something, not like used coffee grounds at all. So sometimes I just like to pick one from the bucket and smell it. I don't use the actual knock bucket, I use a small wooden decorative bowl, which is quite open and look very attractive when filled with dry pucks even above the rim. Robot's hand fits right around the edge of the bowl, as if he holds it. I think it looks cute. And I am starting to think that the smell of the used puck can tell a lot about quality of roast and the uniqueness of certain beans. So that might be another reason to make pucks dry.

VoidedTea wrote: I don't use the actual knock bucket, I use a small wooden decorative bowl, which is quite open and look very attractive when filled with dry pucks even above the rim. Robot's hand fits right around the edge of the bowl, as if he holds it. I think it looks cute. And I am starting to think that the smell of the used puck can tell a lot about quality of roast and the uniqueness of certain beans. So that might be another reason to make pucks dry.

I'd be interested in seeing what you're describing with the bowl. Obviously the Robot portafilter doesn't lend itself to traditional knockboxes, even though you could use one. As a new owner I'm curious what people use.

For me, I thought about getting a knock box for few minutes, then realized that it would only be one more thing to clean. I just open the garbage can and knock it into the bag, done. Actually not a knock, just a flick of
the wrist pops out all but a ring. Quick wipe with
paper to wipe clean. Nothing extra to clean, no need to store it, etc.

Willinak wrote:I'd be interested in seeing what you're describing with the bowl.

Well, here is a quick picture. It is probably called a salad bowl or something like that. I picked it up from a plates and utensils section of a general store. The puck in the Robot doesn't need actual "knocking", just a gentle tap on the edge is enough. So I thought a wooden bowl would compliment the look of the Robot quite nicely. And it is much easier to empty and clean than some knock boxes I saw.

Ken5 wrote:For me, I thought about getting a knock box for few minutes, then realized that it would only be one more thing to clean. I just open the garbage can and knock it into the bag, done. Actually not a knock, just a flick of
the wrist pops out all but a ring. Quick wipe with
paper to wipe clean. Nothing extra to clean, no need to store it, etc.

Ken, I would agree, however my leftovers go in the garden. There is supposed to be some magic that coffee grounds do to growing plants. Not sure I agree, but it kind of completes the cycle!

VoidedTea wrote:The puck in the Robot doesn't need actual "knocking", just a gentle tap on the edge is enough. So I thought a wooden bowl would compliment the look of the Robot quite nicely.

Thanks and you're right about puck release. The bar used in most traditional knockboxes would just get in the way and serve no purpose with the Robot, at least from my neophyte perspective.