Cafelat Robot User Experience - Page 122

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
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Paul_Pratt

#1211: Post by Paul_Pratt »

The 58mm filter papers have arrived, once the safety test is complete we will put them up for sale. The filters are for the screen fetishists out there, and they allegedly also reduce channeling on regular machines as well.

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jbviau
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#1212: Post by jbviau »

^^^ Nice, Paul. Thanks.

This being HB, I will now geek out over the paper filter circles. A few weeks ago, I decided to try out some Whatman circles I found on Amazon. Here's the link: https://www.amazon.com/Whatman-1001-055 ... ef=sr_1_22

I went with 55mm (i.e. 5.5cm), and they're a perfect fit under the metal screen in the sense that they nestle inside the screen's little lip. Yes, I use both. Anyway, I've only done it twice, but the shots both came out nice, and [for those who care] the pucks afterward were flawless--though I attribute that last bit more to only using as much water as I need (so no second pump required).



I imagine 58mm circles are designed for use *without* the metal screen atop them, right?

p.s. 46mm circles work well at the bottom of the portafilter in case anyone is curious. I bought some of those as well from a different vendor. Re: WHY, the filters increase dwell time and so allegedly boost EY, though I don't have a refractometer at home to verify this.
"It's not anecdotal evidence, it's artisanal data." -Matt Yglesias

IMAWriter
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#1213: Post by IMAWriter »

J, yes, filters to use sans screen. One would hope the taste of paper doesn't infiltrate the coffee in the cup.
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

jpender

#1214: Post by jpender »

I must have missed something previously. Why would someone want to use a paper filter in place of the metal screen? I may qualify as a fetishist, I'm not sure, but I don't understand the point of paper. What does it do?

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Balthazar_B

#1215: Post by Balthazar_B » replying to jpender »

A couple of things come to mind:
  • It doesn't need cleaning. Same reason people use paper towels and napkins instead of cloth.
  • If you're coming to the Robot from an Aeropress, maybe you feel more at home?
Paul probably has some better reasons for exploring paper filters, either in tandem with or instead of the screen.
- John

LMWDP # 577

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Eastsideloco
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#1216: Post by Eastsideloco »

It's also a Scott Rao-ism:


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jbviau
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#1217: Post by jbviau »

IMAWriter wrote:One would hope the taste of paper doesn't infiltrate the coffee in the cup.
I'm very sensitive to paper taste, which is one reason why I don't love Chemex as a brew method, but anyway--no, you don't taste any paper when doing this with the Robot.
"It's not anecdotal evidence, it's artisanal data." -Matt Yglesias

intjester

#1218: Post by intjester »

Paul_Pratt wrote:Sorry but I will have to disagree. The screen serves 2 purposes, firstly to act as a shower but more importantly to prevent what you are describing. It acts as a barrier to cushion the coffee from the water, without it it would form a big sludgy mess as you pour the water in. Unless you are slowly pouring water from a great height, I fail to see how you could disturb the puck. If you actually hold the screen up and pour water onto it, it will bead and run off to the sides, I believe the water will only go through the holes once you have an even layer of water on the top with some sort of weight/pressure behind it.

Also please be patient regarding emails, we try our best but are a small company and there are so many holidays this time of year.
First, Paul, I want to say it's awesome that you're on here giving us individual attention for tech support. You've made a fan for life. Robot is my first espresso machine. I am using a Kinu M47 grinder. I've made a few pounds worth of shots at this point.

I'm also experiencing the dimpled puck and the water immediately is cloudy/brown when I start pouring onto the screen. Also, I'm getting a fair amount of spatter/spray, although the coffee tastes good. I came to this thread as a newbie hoping to clean up my act a bit, and this discussion seems on point.

Perhaps not all screens are equal? Mine in particular is loose at the center nub - it spins freely with no resistance. To me, that indicates a path for water to take. And in fact, when I hold it at the sink, I can get a partial stream straight down through the center like this (flow rate similar to how I might pour from a kettle):


So it would at least seem possible that this center rivet is where dimpled pucks may be occurring for some and not others? Since you are about to modify the screen nub anyway to add the knurling....

Does it matter? I think your point about not overcomplicating things is valid. I'm not letting it bother me a bit - I'm too busy enjoying my espresso! But I thought this would be helpful information to add to the discussion. As for my spatter/spray problem, I'm now inclined to think it's more likely the grind/dose and not the screen, but making 1 or 2 shots a day makes for a long time before I feel I have enough data to say this or that. I'll probably be off experimenting for another month. Had been using 18g. Will dial that back some and see where I get to.

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Paul_Pratt

#1219: Post by Paul_Pratt »

Balthazar_B wrote:Paul probably has some better reasons for exploring paper filters, either in tandem with or instead of the screen.
People can use them how they wish, I offer them as an alternative to or with the stainless screen. The increase in EY and less channeling has been well documented by now. Also for my sanity I have to stop with the screen discussion - the papers are there if anyone wants them.
intjester wrote: And in fact, when I hold it at the sink, I can get a partial stream straight down through the center like this (flow rate similar to how I might pour from a kettle):
Possible yes, but you can clearly see the water coalesce into a stream from the center after it has gone through the stream.

Like I have said many times now the screen holds back the initial pour of water from the kettle, that is it. channeling and spritzers are from distribution.

Geert

#1220: Post by Geert »

intjester wrote:I'm also experiencing the dimpled puck and the water immediately is cloudy/brown when I start pouring onto the screen. Also, I'm getting a fair amount of spatter/spray, although the coffee tastes good. I came to this thread as a newbie hoping to clean up my act a bit, and this discussion is on point.
I think I solved my puck errosion issue a week ago. I found out it's less if a problem if you push the screen on the coffee instead of just dropping it in the basket. It noticed the difference immediately when pouring water on the screen, the water stays almost clear now.

Splattering I only experience when using exceptionally high pressure. That's easily fixed by grinding a bit coarser.