Cafelat Robot User Experience - Page 117

#1161: Post by **Balthazar_B** » July 24th, 2019, 10:54 pm

jevenator wrote:Just got a "new" robot from a fellow HB member here.

Very interesting machine. My first experience with levers in general. I was very surprised by the amount of pressure needed. I was going pretty gentle the first time and I'm like "wow I'm only at 4 bar and my cup is half full already." Next shot I tried to push harder and felt that when I was adding enough pressure to get 5.5-6 bar the levers are coming down quite fast & it's over. Can't decline the pressure over the course of the shot. I ground a lot finer and the pressure was actually tough and the shot was slow but had a lot of channeling and dead spots on the BPF. I do RDT before I tamp though.

Try your RDT before you grind, and your WDT in the basket. Maybe play with different dose/grind ratios to find the sweet spot for the coffee you're using. And a lot of people find a light tamp often works better than a heavy hand.

July 24th, 2019, 11:30 pm

Always did rdt and wdt. I'm actually thinking it's the tamp because I looked at the demo video on YouTube and my tamp was not gentle at all as it was on the video.

July 25th, 2019, 12:15 am

jevenator wrote:Just got a "new" robot from a fellow HB member here.

Very interesting machine. My first experience with levers in general. I was very surprised by the amount of pressure needed. I was going pretty gentle the first time and I'm like "wow I'm only at 4 bar and my cup is half full already." Next shot I tried to push harder and felt that when I was adding enough pressure to get 5.5-6 bar the levers are coming down quite fast & it's over. Can't decline the pressure over the course of the shot. I ground a lot finer and the pressure was actually tough and the shot was slow but had a lot of channeling and dead spots on the BPF. I do RDT before I tamp though.

If you think the grind is fine enough than maybe check your dose. I've not had much luck vis-à-vis channeling with larger doses.

#1164: Post by **Paul_Pratt** » July 25th, 2019, 9:49 pm

I received an email, maybe a member here. The bullet points of his email were:

Had new Robot 1 week
Tricky to nail down the grind setting using a brand new well respected hand grinder
Pour is either too fast or too slow
Makes a big mess when extracting, uneven extractions
tried varying dose, tamping etc..
About to give up

Here is my reply to him, and I am posting it here to help other new users.

Dear XXXX,

The Robot is as simple as you can get. But first whilst you are learning please put the spouts on the bottom that will prevent mess.

Whilst small hand grinders can work, they are very difficult and tedious for espresso. Where they excel is for pour over coffees, they can work for espresso but grind adjustments are tricky to nail down. That sounds exactly like what you are describing. Small adjustments are difficult on manual grinders, but they are necessary to dial in a shot. A case in point is that you are either too fine or too coarse when you need to be in the middle of the 2.

Anyway go back to the basics:

Fresh coffee, ground fresh
14-16g of coffee
Stir the grinds in the basket to de-clump
Light tamp then add the screen.
Shot time after pre-infusion 20-25 seconds

You just need to hit that sweet spot. If you think your grind setting is as good as you can get, adjust the dose 1-2g accordingly. Too fast? add 1-2g of coffee. Too slow? reduce by a 1g and see how it goes.

Failing that try a friend's grinder.

Now after reading that again I did not spot the word new grinder, I should have mentioned that as well. Obviously the new grinder will need a while to bed in.

#1165: Post by **hbk520** » July 25th, 2019, 9:51 pm

jevenator wrote:Just got a "new" robot from a fellow HB member here.

I ground a lot finer and the pressure was actually tough and the shot was slow but had a lot of channeling and dead spots on the BPF.

I have same issue here , always do WDT / shake / paper filter method / pre-infusion , but "dead spot" often happens. ( dose :18g , 7-8 bar )
Has any one know how to get well distribution in filter basket ? because OCD can't into Robot's basket.

July 25th, 2019, 10:40 pm

You may use whatever you want, chopstick, bamboo skewer, a spoon handle etc..I normally stir, settle the grounds with 1 slight tap with my hand and then tamp.

July 25th, 2019, 10:55 pm

Paul_Pratt wrote:I received an email, maybe a member here. The bullet points of his email were:

Had new Robot 1 week
Tricky to nail down the grind setting using a brand new well respected hand grinder
Pour is either too fast or too slow
Makes a big mess when extracting, uneven extractions
tried varying dose, tamping etc..
About to give up

Here is my reply to him, and I am posting it here to help other new users.

Now after reading that again I did not spot the word new grinder, I should have mentioned that as well. Obviously the new grinder will need a while to bed in.

spot on.

would add one remark though...

it will make less mess if you if you make a slow ramp-up (rise the pressure gradually) at the beginning of the pull.

There are a few great quality manual grinders which (if seasoned) excel in experienced hands. for beginners isn't always easy to dial-in. I have different makes and almost never use my electrical ones.

July 26th, 2019, 1:55 am

Paul_Pratt wrote:I received an email, maybe a member here. The bullet points of his email were:

Had new Robot 1 week
Tricky to nail down the grind setting using a brand new well respected hand grinder
Pour is either too fast or too slow
Makes a big mess when extracting, uneven extractions
tried varying dose, tamping etc..
About to give up

Here is my reply to him, and I am posting it here to help other new users.
The Robot is as simple as you can get. But first whilst you are learning please put the spouts on the bottom that will prevent mess.

Whilst small hand grinders can work, they are very difficult and tedious for espresso. Where they excel is for pour over coffees, they can work for espresso but grind adjustments are tricky to nail down. That sounds exactly like what you are describing. Small adjustments are difficult on manual grinders, but they are necessary to dial in a shot. A case in point is that you are either too fine or too coarse when you need to be in the middle of the 2.

Anyway go back to the basics:

Fresh coffee, ground fresh
14-16g of coffee
Stir the grinds in the basket to de-clump
Light tamp then add the screen.
Shot time after pre-infusion 20-25 seconds

You just need to hit that sweet spot. If you think your grind setting is as good as you can get, adjust the dose 1-2g accordingly. Too fast? add 1-2g of coffee. Too slow? reduce by a 1g and see how it goes.

Failing that try a friend's grinder.

Now after reading that again I did not spot the word new grinder, I should have mentioned that as well. Obviously the new grinder will need a while to bed in.

* I would reiterate the 14-16 or so grams. I'm at about 16.5 and not having an issue. The bigger the dose over Mr. Pratt's suggested level the more difficult it is to keep 'puck integrity.' I have a Niche and generally grind between the 11-14 settings.
*As far as the pull I do about a ten second pre-infusion a gradual ramp up to 8 bar and toward the last ten ml start dropping the pressure to 6 bar.
*Fwiw some beans seem to be better at 'puck integrity' and of course fresh beans are better.
*Having said all of this correct dose weight and WDT seem to be the biggest factor in success.

#1169: Post by **jpender** » July 26th, 2019, 8:39 am

What does "puck integrity" mean exactly?

I've been dosing at 18g and stopped stirring with a bamboo skewer when I discovered it wasn't making any perceived difference. Does this say something about my grinder, the coffee, the local environmental conditions, or am I missing something?

#1170: Post by **LewBK** » July 26th, 2019, 1:45 pm

I've been dosing at 18 grams too lately with a 2.1 setting on a kinu m47 and have been getting better results than when I was dosing at 15 grams. I have no idea why, but I've been hitting my target bar level and the coffee has been less bitter and the pucks haven't been nearly as cracked as when I dosed at 15 grams.