Cafelat Robot User Experience - Page 103

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Balthazar_B

#1021: Post by Balthazar_B » Jun 30, 2019, 9:23 pm

jpender wrote:Sorry for the ignorant question, but why would burr alignment cause the flow to be asymmetric?
If the variation and distribution of coffee particles is uneven enough, there will be times where channeling is more prone to occur. Not sure how this would reliably cause the doughnut effect, though. Can't say I've observed this with my Robot.
- John

LMWDP # 577

IMAWriter
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#1022: Post by IMAWriter » replying to Balthazar_B » Jul 01, 2019, 12:14 am

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Getting the kind of pours the OP describers is usually poor technique..either distribution and tamp. Exerting to much early LEVER pressure on the puck without a bit of pre-infusion is another. Lastly, grossly uneven grind, without P{ERFECT distribute and solid perfect leveled tamp will cause an uneven pour, which usually looks like channeling, at least on one side. Doughnut pours are a largely common problem as well, if the tamper is ill fitted, which is NOT the case with the Robot tamper. None of us wish to admit when our technique has failed us. I can't believe Paul, with ALL the time invested in R&D would have not sussed a problem with the screen.
Of COURSE a paper filter will lessen the effect, as it's totally slowing down the process, allowing a more thorough soaking of the puck..with, IMO deleterious effect.
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

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Balthazar_B

#1023: Post by Balthazar_B » Jul 01, 2019, 12:48 am

IMAWriter wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Getting the kind of pours the OP describers is usually poor technique..either distribution and tamp. Exerting to much early LEVER pressure on the puck without a bit of pre-infusion is another.
FWIW, I've come to believe that effective preinfusion is the key to a virtuous cycle of ameliorating slight flaws with distribution and better extractions, particularly with a machine like the Robot. This article seems to support the idea that preinfusion helps prevent fines migration, which can inhibit optimal results with pressurized extractions (and floats the idea that the use of a filter above the basket pores can help as well).
- John

LMWDP # 577

vit

#1024: Post by vit » Jul 01, 2019, 2:41 am

Strange, on flair I'm not using preinfusion except with lightest roasts as I like the taste better, using low doses, tamping recently only with1-2kg and in 98-99% cases flow is perfectly fine

Maybe whole preinfusion topic just needs more analysis

CharacterZero

#1025: Post by CharacterZero » Jul 01, 2019, 7:39 am

leveralex wrote:So everyone having issues with side channeling, weak body extractions without heavy pre-infusion
I have zero problems with side channeling and/or weak body extractions and I do not remember hearing of anyone else much less "everyone", which makes it sound like it's a widespread issue. Could you please point me to where all those people are saying this?
leveralex wrote:So story: Like many others i noticed that it was kind of hard to get those syrupy extractions from the Robot.
No problem here getting syrupy shots. Like most lever machines the body may be a bit thinner than what you receive from a pump driven machine, but not by much. There are also differences in other ways that make a lever produced espresso preferred by many.

Again, could you point me to the "many others" noticing a challenge in getting "syrupy extractions"?

I've used my Robot almost exclusively since receiving it many, many months ago much to the chagrin of my other machines. The Robot has really struck the perfect spot for my personal espresso needs. Very forgiving of grind, preparation and produces wonderful espresso from dark roasted Italian style to medium roasted coffees that I prefer. My only complaint is that Paul didn't bring the Robot to market 20 years earlier, would have saved me thousands!

adyu

#1026: Post by adyu » Jul 01, 2019, 8:37 am

Well, c'mon. Don't give a guy the third degree for trying to be helpful. It is rather curious that he's having all these problems across a variety of different grinders and puck preps. Maybe he was the recipient of a unit with a rare manufacturing defect?

CharacterZero

#1027: Post by CharacterZero » replying to adyu » Jul 01, 2019, 9:41 am

Not giving the guy a hard time, just genuinely curious where he's found a group of people with the same issues. Maybe it's his wording that make it sound as if it's a widespread problem, maybe not.

vit

#1028: Post by vit » Jul 01, 2019, 10:22 am

Might be a combination of several other things connected with shape of shower screen, that don't occur for other members. Way of pouring? Way of tamping? Preheating or not and how ? ... just like I seem to be only one here preferring no preinfusion on my gear ...

jpender

#1029: Post by jpender » Jul 01, 2019, 12:15 pm

I'm new to espresso so I don't know what I'm doing. I started out tamping about as hard as I could and it was working fine. But then I read that that probably isn't necessary and, sure enough, tamping lightly produced the same results. I was also dutifully stirring the grounds to "break up clumps". I didn't really understand why this should be necessary. Wouldn't tamping crush the clumps anyway? But I did it because I thought it was what you do. Until one day when I didn't and discovered it didn't make any difference.

So this morning I thought why not try skipping pre-infusion. And... it made a **huge** difference. Going straight to full pressure basically choked the Robot.

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yakster
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#1030: Post by yakster » Jul 01, 2019, 1:24 pm

It sounds like you've got your grind dialed in for your pre-infusion routine, so dropping the pre-infusion would require readjusting your grind settings.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272