Cafelat Robot User Experience - Page 2

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
schneckerl

#11: Post by schneckerl » Oct 05, 2018, 5:19 am

Marcelnl wrote:what the last picture is showing appears to be the barista build given it has the manometer, so those have also started shipping or did I miss something?

(eagerly awaiting my green Barista Robot)
I was told that Paul started with the normal robots and that the barista versions will be "made" next week! The moment it's being shipped you'll get a tracking code through Kickstarter message.
vit wrote:It looks like my Flair may get a replacement in the near future. This is definitively a better device in various aspects

It would be nice to have a single basket as well though
I only found out about the Flair when the robot got delayed. As the Flair turned out to be a formidable device, it'll be very difficult for the robot to dethrone it.

I see an advantage when it comes to preparing 2 espressi at the same time. On the other hand, I still don't understand how the robot will deal with roasts other than dark/medium dark ones. The routines shown in the videos didn't involve any kind of preheating; the manual invokes preheating methods, including preheating the portafilter, but as the latter is 100% steel that might become somehow tricky ( =hot!).

samuellaw178
Team HB

#12: Post by samuellaw178 » Oct 05, 2018, 5:30 am

Marcelnl wrote:what the last picture is showing appears to be the barista build given it has the manometer, so those have also started shipping or did I miss something?

(eagerly awaiting my green Barista Robot)
Hi Marcel

That's one of the early units sent for review purpose. So no you have not missed anything - the production Barista Robot has not been officially shipped (but pretty soon!).

Marcelnl

#13: Post by Marcelnl » Oct 05, 2018, 6:55 am

drgary wrote:Yes, Marcel, you're missing that Sam got one early as a reviewer. :mrgreen:
tssssk, gets me wondering why I'm not a reviewer.... :D

I know mine will come in the next weeks, the communication by Paul is quite clear. No worry, I'm having a steady supply of the good stuff through my Urania.
LMWDP #483

vit

#14: Post by vit » Oct 05, 2018, 6:58 am

schneckerl wrote:I only found out about the Flair when the robot got delayed. As the Flair turned out to be a formidable device, it'll be very difficult for the robot to dethrone it.

I see an advantage when it comes to preparing 2 espressi at the same time. On the other hand, I still don't understand how the robot will deal with roasts other than dark/medium dark ones. The routines shown in the videos didn't involve any kind of preheating; the manual invokes preheating methods, including preheating the portafilter, but as the latter is 100% steel that might become somehow tricky ( =hot!).
I was also asking myself the same question

Problem with Flair is that cylinder is thick and needs time to preheat (boiling, steaming), then it cools quickly due to water evaporation before you pour the water in. Original preheat method is more or less unusable for anything near espresso

Here, basket itself is a cylinder at the same time, much thinner, so water that is poured in cools about 4°C before reaching equilibrium - stated by manufacturer and calculation is giving me similar, so with off the boil water you end up with temperature suitable for medium and darker roasts.

For lighter roasts, you can quickly preheat it at least to about 50-60°C by pouring some hot water through it before dosing, so that this decrease of water temperature will be about halved I think

Yes, during extraction it will cool further, but water quantity is bigger here than in Flair and temperature capacity of water + cylinder/basket is bigger (according to my quick calculation) and preheated PF (if needed) will slow it down as well. On the other side, silicone sleeve on Flair isn't especially good insulator

So overall temperature control looks easier and more repeatable to me and whole procedure faster. Or so I think ...

There are also some videos with measurements on YT

It would be nice to have double wall cylinder on Flair (similar to double wall inox french press), it would make all this preheathing thing unnecessary

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instantkamera

#15: Post by instantkamera » Oct 05, 2018, 8:08 am

Balthazar_B wrote:Paul also posted a link to the Robot user manual. I know I'll be memorizing it in advance of receiving my Barista build.

http://www.cafelat.com/uploads/1/5/3/6/ ... manual.pdf
I noted a typo in the manual. On pg 17, under the Troubleshooting section, the first remediation step for Little coffee is coming out should be to "grind coarser" (not finer). Someone may want to inform Paul.

schneckerl

#16: Post by schneckerl » Oct 05, 2018, 8:32 am

vit wrote: So overall temperature control looks easier and more repeatable to me and whole procedure faster. Or so I think ...

There are also some videos with measurements on YT
I don't know. With the flair, basket with tamped coffee is separate from the cylinder, where all the preheating is being done. With the robot, whatever preheating routine you have, you'll only be inserting coffee and doing the tamping afterwards (plus wiping the basket dry), and you'd be doing so while holding a more or less hot steel PF. So while you can swith from preheating and heating the water to actual extration within very few seconds (depending on your skills) on the Flair, hell of a lot more time will pass from preheating until actual extraction with the robot, right?

I saw the YT vids, they showed 86°C if i remember well? With Paul mentionning that 88°C should be possible?

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instantkamera

#17: Post by instantkamera » replying to schneckerl » Oct 05, 2018, 9:14 am

I tend to agree with your initial assessment, but we wont know till everyone gets their hands on this and pushes all the limits. Personal experience tells me it's probably fine either way, so long as your routine is sound. Temperature is but one variable here.

Our friend vit has an unusual fixation on temperature as far as the Flair goes, but as that's well documented territory, it would be nice if this thread could stay focused and on-topic.

schneckerl

#18: Post by schneckerl » Oct 05, 2018, 10:38 am

instantkamera wrote:it would be nice if this thread could stay focused and on-topic.
Consider this the pre-heating phase until we receive our Robots :)

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drgary
Team HB

#19: Post by drgary » Oct 05, 2018, 11:31 am

schneckerl wrote:I still don't understand how the robot will deal with roasts other than dark/medium dark ones. The routines shown in the videos didn't involve any kind of preheating; the manual invokes preheating methods, including preheating the portafilter, but as the latter is 100% steel that might become somehow tricky ( =hot!).
That's why we write reviews. It's in the first post with more detail in the fourth post.
drgary wrote:I'm still dialing it in, but as I write this I just put the Robot to the Nordic roast** test, and it is fully capable. I also just pulled a first-rate shot of a local favorite, Stumptown Hairbender, a darker medium roast that likes to be updosed. Since even darker roasts simply require cooler temperatures, the Robot can pull the full range of espresso roasting styles.
drgary wrote:This morning I pulled a shot of a Nordic-roasted Ethiopian natural from a local roaster with that style. Fellow HB Team member Sam Law has experience with the Faema Baby and advised me to preheat the filter basket and to pour hot water on top of the shower screen, then discard that and pour in hot brew water. I did that using water just off the boil and the temperature was just right. So, if you're used to a very light roast, the Robot is capable of handling it.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

Nate42

#20: Post by Nate42 » Oct 05, 2018, 2:52 pm

Gary, so you are suggesting add coffee, tamp, add shower screen, then pour in and discard preheat water? And this doesn't disturb the coffee under the screen?