Cafelat Robot day 1 issues - Help needed - Page 2

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
mixespresso (original poster)
Posts: 236
Joined: 2 years ago

#11: Post by mixespresso (original poster) »

First, a big thanks to everybody for all the help. You guys are amazing

mixespresso (original poster)
Posts: 236
Joined: 2 years ago

#12: Post by mixespresso (original poster) »

vit wrote:Machines in lower price range are often advertised as producing 15 or even 20 bar. It's the pressure that vibe pump is producing at zero flow. In reality, due to presence of "coffee valve" at the bottom of the boiler and lower quality pumps being used, real pressure on the puck on most of those machines during the shot is something like 6-8 bar, depending on the flow

As about the grinder, most of them don't produce best result at the point when the burrs start (or almost) touching, because it's way off their optimum zone and consistency is suffering (there will be lots of fines but still some boulders among them), so have that in mind. It's better to go slightly coarser than that and updose

If the flow was much higher than previous shot on DeLonhgi machine so that you couldn't reach at least 5-6 bar (I suppose it was the same or previous day and not something like a month ago, so that beans degassed in the meantime), main problem should be something else, although surely alignment of the grinder is worth checking and Robot most likely needs somewhat finer grind than DeLonghi

Have in mind than in 58mm basket puck preparation is much more challenging than in smaller baskets, so when dosing, try to achieve distribution as even as possible before tamping to avoid channeling. Robot has deep basket so it's even more challenging than ordinary espresso basket. Uneven distribution can't be entirely "corrected" with tamping. You can use a needle, paperclip or some other similar improvised tool

Another problem in "pourover espresso machines" like Robot or Flair is that way of pouring might also cause channeling, especially if gooseneck kettle is used, so that the water is hitting the small spot on the shower screen. It should be visible by observing the condition of the puck after extraction - it might have uneven surface or some parts might be considerably softer than other. Try putting a piece of filter paper below the shower screen, with diameter matching the diameter of the basket and see if that helps. In both my "pourover" machines (Flair and Kompresso) it improves the result although both of them have the shower screen

Also, for the beginning, try with shorter preinfusion or just with about linear pressure rise within 5-10 s to see if that helps and leave determining the optimum preinfusion length / profile for your taste and beans for later time
Thanks Vit. All good comments

re: beans
Yes, the same degassed beans gave me way higher flow. I also tried different beans to discard that variable

Re: distribution
I am using the same improvised WDT tool and technique as before. The distributions look good to me

Re: kettle
I have a standard kettle (no gooseneck). I will try the paper filter to see if the extraction changes

mixespresso (original poster)
Posts: 236
Joined: 2 years ago

#13: Post by mixespresso (original poster) »

imp96 wrote:Posting a video would probably be the best way for other to notice the issue.
You are right. I will try to get one done this weekend

mixespresso (original poster)
Posts: 236
Joined: 2 years ago

#14: Post by mixespresso (original poster) »

Corgo wrote:Any chance the pressure gauge is off or defective? I get 2 bars by barely pushing the levers and use 2 bars for preinfusion. Just pushing it so it pulls the shot is closer to 4 bars and I have to apply a little bit of force to hit 6 bars. If I am pushing very hard on it, I would be the the 10 bar mark. Wonder if OP tries to dial in by ignoring the pressure gauge might actually work.
How could I know if the pressure gauge is defective? I have read other comments from robot owners that had water in the tube, or other people that reported sealing problems and could see water splitting from the top of the portafilter. In my case, I don't see any of those 2 issues.

mixespresso (original poster)
Posts: 236
Joined: 2 years ago

#15: Post by mixespresso (original poster) »

yakster wrote:Have you tried freshly roasted coffee? Also try 18, 20, even 22 grams of coffee in the basket to see if you can feel some back pressure from the coffee when pulling the shot. Try using water right off the boil.
Yes, I went yesterday to my local roaster and bought 250g of coffee roasted on the 14th of Sept
I asked them to grind it for me for espresso so I could explore "my grinder problem hypothesis" The robot flow I got from using the roaster ground coffee was comparable to the one I got using my grinder. So, I am not too convinced of the grinder issue hypothesis anymore...

re: coffee grams
With the Delonghi, I always used 17g
With the Robot, I have aimed for 16g from the start
In the last shot with the roaster ground, I increased the weight to 18g. I will try 20g next as you suggested

vit
Posts: 996
Joined: 9 years ago

#16: Post by vit »

You can roughly check the gauge by putting the Robot on the bathroom scale (preferably classical one with the spring as most electronic scales tend to end the measurement as soon as the force is about constant). From my remembering, something around 25 kg equals to 9 bar (there should be a chart in the manual), though it depends a bit how you actually hold the levers, but 6-7 bar is perfectly fine or even better than "standard" 9 bar pressure. With relatively fresh beans, you will get some crema above 4-5 bar

Of course, if the beans are old and degassed, they won't be up to the task. I usually freeze the beans after opening a new bag, leaving only quantity for next 3-4 days unfrozen (depends how old they actually are - with my local roasters, it's rarely less than a week and some of them even cheat with roast dates, writing - I suppose - the date when they actually put the beans in the bag from a bigger container with not that freshly roasted coffee - I can tell that by the smell and aroma)

mixespresso (original poster)
Posts: 236
Joined: 2 years ago

#17: Post by mixespresso (original poster) replying to vit »

By degassed beans, I meant the 3-4 days after the roasting date. I actually freeze my beans too. So far, I have tested beans I had stored in the freezer, supermarket beans I bought to experiment and the fresh ground coffee I bought from my roaster

Interesting about the weight-pressure relation. I will see how I can test it.

Ken5
Posts: 977
Joined: 4 years ago

#18: Post by Ken5 »

Personally I don't give much value in the grind that works for their machine, guess there is a 'small' chance it would also have worked worked for you, but who knows.

Here is a page from a manual showing the conversion of bars to a bathroom scale. Hope it helps.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/19947 ... =23#manual

Ken

Ken5
Posts: 977
Joined: 4 years ago

#19: Post by Ken5 »

Maybe the gasket is not seated properly?

mixespresso (original poster)
Posts: 236
Joined: 2 years ago

#20: Post by mixespresso (original poster) replying to Ken5 »

I did not see any water spitting from the the top of the PF, but I will definitely check it up tomorrow. thanks