JohnB. wrote:Who was making that argument?? All it tells you is that the insulated boiler is holding it's temp well.

My apologies if I misunderstood the point you or anyone else was trying to make. I thought the points were being raised to shed light on the pros and cons of adding a PID versus using a pressurestat, which was a big part of the initial conversation in this thread. If it was just to show the benefits of insulating a boiler, I would agree that a longer pressurestat cycling time is obviously relevant to that.

JohnB. wrote:As for the group temp I've scace tested my Bosco a number of times & the results are consistent. As for being able to taste a .1b difference in the cup I find that very hard to believe.

Well, earlier today I was dialing in a lightly roasted natural processed Yirg. This coffee has a narrow sweet spot, with delicious peach and floral notes if you get it right, but it can easily shade over into astringency if you screw things up. I had a shot that was "close but not quite," with nice flavors up front but a bittering aftertaste. 30 minutes later I kept every other parameter the same but I dropped the boiler from 250F to 245F, which moved the pressure gauge from around 1bar to a bit under 0.9 bar. This resulted in a mellower and sweeter aftertaste for shot #2. YMMV, obviously, depending on what coffees and parameters you use.

JohnB. wrote:Who was making that argument?? All it tells you is that the insulated boiler is holding it's temp well. As for the group temp I've scace tested my Bosco a number of times & the results are consistent. As for being able to taste a .1b difference in the cup I find that very hard to believe.

Well, there are folks (like sommeliers) whose sense of taste is to most people's like, well, a dog's sense of smell is to ALL people's. Master sommeliers have the sensory ability to distinguish between wines that come from different quadrants of the same vineyard. Suspect there are folks that have a similar ability to distinguish between the same coffee brewed at different temps or pressures in a double blind test. Now, they're likely *very* rare, but not that hard to believe they're out there.

OTOH, most mortals won't be able to detect differences like that, so while the debate is valid and perhaps interesting, it's meaningless for most of us as a practical matter. For those rare exceptions, congratulations on your genes or wherever your gift comes from.

>OTOH, most mortals won't be able to detect differences like that, so while the debate is valid and perhaps interesting, it's meaningless for most of us as >a practical matter. For those rare exceptions, congratulations on your genes or wherever your gift comes from.

Somms taste differences because they were trained to do so...they are not super humans. They just tasted lots of wines and learned what to look for.
You can do the same with espresso or chocolate or whatever. Drink a lot and pay attention...take notes, whatever.

Tasting differences in parts a vineyard....if the soils are different (and they often are) its surprisingly easy to differentiate.

All I'm saying is you can learn to taste differences (oh and somms are ruining wine....but thats a different matter all together)

JohnB. wrote:With the feet screwed fully in the height from the counter to to the top of edge of the case is 18.5"/469mm. With the feet at there lowest position you would have 1" under the case sides.

I missed this (only one inch underneath) yesterday. It sounds like I might need to remove from the top instead, or just find a different location. Thanks for the help John.

I'd go with the different location. There is no option to remove height from the top plus it would be nice to be able to put cups on the cup tray.

triode steve wrote:>OTOH, most mortals won't be able to detect differences like that, so while the debate is valid and perhaps interesting, it's meaningless for most of us as >a practical matter. For those rare exceptions, congratulations on your genes or wherever your gift comes from.

Somms taste differences because they were trained to do so...they are not super humans. They just tasted lots of wines and learned what to look for.
You can do the same with espresso or chocolate or whatever. Drink a lot and pay attention...take notes, whatever.

Tasting differences in parts a vineyard....if the soils are different (and they often are) its surprisingly easy to differentiate.

All I'm saying is you can learn to taste differences (oh and somms are ruining wine....but thats a different matter all together)

Should be a thread of its own, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. While training plays a part, I firmly believe there are fundamental physical differences between people that determine how far one can go. For instance:

• Acuity of eyesight, hearing, smell;
• Quick-twich nerves;
• Hormonal levels that affect all kinds of things;
• Perfect pitch.

And don't get me started on aging. I've had significant losses in sensory capabilities as I've gotten older. If I taste most Cab Francs against most Cab Sauvs these days -- not to mention two of the same varietals -- the wines will taste pretty much the same to me. Maybe I'll detect differences in alcohol levels if they're extreme, but flavors? Didn't used to be that way.

As Mr. Quigley advised Archie Bunker: "Don't grow old."

Did anyone ever find out why Bosco added that weird bolt to the top of the group?

I sent an email asking about it this morning, thanks for reminding me! I'll let you know what she says.

Phaedrus wrote:Did anyone ever find out why Bosco added that weird bolt to the top of the group?

That's for the diagonal steam trap.

Roberta Responded to me. She said the screw was to actually protect the group itself from being struck by the lever when pulling down. I guess that would make sense but my electrical tape is staying put on the screw for now.