Hi all,
I recently found an older two button Pavoni Europiccola at an estate sale for a fairly lucky price. Being my first espresso machine I've had a pretty steep learning curve, but after just a few hours of using it, thanks to the help of the many who've posted about it on this site and some patience I feel I can say I am producing espresso nearly on par with the local cafe's whose only competition is with Starbucks (local being within Boston's Fenway/Back Bay area...so far to my knowledge the only respectable espresso in the area is Simon's way out in Porter Square).

But anyway, I had a question regarding cleaning that I haven't found here yet, and my apologies if it has already been raised. What is the best way to clean the inside of the boiler? I'm not so much concerned with descaling as I've already let some Urnex Cafiza sit in it, but my concern is with the possibility that some of the brass has oxidized, which may be affecting taste, and or raise a health concern. Is it possible to dismantle the boiler and use some kind of brass polish, or is there a foodsafe product made with this in mind? Any suggestions are more than welcome.

Many thanks,
-nathaniel

Welcome aboard!
Cafiza is a detergent and to my knowledge is not a de-scaler. It is best used to remove the goo and tar inside the group and screen. Some folks use a measuring cup of hot Cafiza or equivalent solution and slurp it into and out of the group of a cold or at most warm machine with the lever. Then rinse the same way. Citric acid is a good de-scaler and works well when hot, but not heated, by the boiler heater. Mix according to the boiler descale threads here and slosh it around inside the boiler. let it set for an hour and then flush the boiler with water many times till there is no taste. Then pull a couple shots with out grounds and then a throwaway with. There are threads covering almost every aspect of the LaPavoni series and what to do, with which end, to which!
Again, Welcome aboard!
Sincerely
Richard

espressme wrote: Citric acid is a good de-scaler and works well when hot, but not heated, by the boiler heater.
Richard

Richard,

Not sure what you mean by the above statement. Why not hot but not heated by the boiler? Can you clarify?

Thanks!
Jon

I think he means use hot tap water, instead of putting water and citric acid in the boiler then turning the machine on.

Other than using a mild de-scaler like citric acid, I doubt there's much of a need for anything else in the boiler. Unless milk got sucked into the boiler from the steam wand, or something like that.

I'm not sure if vinegar or some other more harsh chemical is something you want to try, but if you're really worried about things inside then it may be worth a shot. After that just make sure to do a LOT of flushing, and always pull some blank shots to and taste them when you think it's ready, that should let you know if the water hitting the coffee is of an acceptable quality to you.

Hi Jon,
Any acidic solution is much stronger when hot. So it can be very active when heated by the heating unit.. The heating element in the older machines is a copper coil with an electric resistance unit inside. If the coil is eaten away by too strong solutions used over many years it can cause an electrical short. I found the hard way that boiler cleaning by using the element to heat the solution removed the interior plating of my machine. Some persons overhauling old machines have even found holes eaten through the boiler. So.. do the minimum necessary when descaling. Read some other threads about descaling and get an idea about the time necessary.
Cheers
Richard

rawman wrote:Richard,
Not sure what you mean by the above statement. Why not hot but not heated by the boiler? Can you clarify?
Thanks!
Jon

Thanks Richard, I've read a lot of threads on descaling, but I guess I missed the distinction between hot and heated in the boiler. Hope I didn't damage anything.. I have run boilers up to temp/pressure with Citric acid solution in it.

So have I and it should not have damaged the machine. I did de-plate the inside of my Cremina that way though. So I am now of the idea that the minimum necessary is best. Or, everything in moderation including moderation!
Cheers
Richard

Hm, my 2002 Cremina was a machine that I brought up to boiler temp and pressure. Lets hope I didn't damage that.

Odd thing, is that in the instruction manual for the La Pavoni, it says for first time operation,
Fill the boiler, put the the included descale solution into hot water in a mug and stir until it's dissolved then pour into the boiler, close the boiler cap and steam knob, plug the machine in, turn it on, allow it to come up to full pressure and temperature, leave that way for 15 minutes, then run this through the head by raising the lever, then eventually turn it off drain it and do the same with clean fresh water.

And the stuff they included in the package was Cafiza espresso machine cleaner. This sounded like a bad idea to me so I took the advice of some others on here and substituted baking soda instead, although I did bring it up to temp/pressure. In fact, for my Expobar, and for the Elektra MCAL, I used Citric Acid and ran it up to temp/pressure as well

I would guess that the Cafiza detergent, in that situation, was to remove any lingering industrial chemicals and oils used in the manufacture of the machine. Some cutting fluids are really nasty.
By the way your 2002 Cremina has a stainless steel boiler.
Cheers
Richard