Announced: Argos lever espresso machine by Odyssey Espresso - Page 16

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LObin
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#151: Post by LObin »

Jonk wrote:I'd imagine the temperature drop to be more in line with a Robot that hasn't been pre-heated. Could be just fine and certainly easier to work with than a Pavoni.. But if you want the best possible temperature stability go for an open/saturated boiler or something that can compensate like DE1.
That is not my point.
I'm not looking for a new machine. I have purchased an OE-1 for a friend who's asked some help creating a coffee bar for his new weekend cottage under construction. I personally won't use it although it's a very interesting design that my one day appeal me.

It's a bit of a stretch to pretend that people will be pulling shots after a 5 minute warm-up. I mean, you can do that on many machines if you have a way to set the boiler temperature higher to compensate.

When friends ask me for advices on an espresso machine but their morning routine (or patience) doesn't allow them enough time to heat up a machine, grind tamp and pull... Well sometimes a super-automatic or a Nespresso is the right answer.

There was a video posted a few weeks ago showing the intra-shot temperature. The drop was quite steep. Now I understand why. There's an automatic cut off on the machine after X number of time. Hopefully it has been set long enough after the warm up so folks who like to pull shots on hot machine, can. Maybe it'll even be possible to set it to your liking.
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Jake_G
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#152: Post by Jake_G »

LObin wrote:It's a bit of a stretch to pretend that people will be pulling shots after a 5 minute warm-up. I mean, you can do that on many machines if you have a way to set the boiler temperature higher to compensate.
That's the whole point of this machine.

Ross has an algorithm that sets an overheated boiler temperature based on the actual temperature of the group and the target brew temperature. This is not designed to be a steady-state shot-pulling machine. It is designed to be ready to pull a shot very quickly and work just fine with a cold group. As the group warms up, the boiler doesn't need to be as hot, so the target boiler temperature decreases shot after shot, which keeps it from overheating. The "ready" light is based on the boiler hitting the target temperature for whatever temperature the group happens to be at.

The biggest variable will be the preinfusion pressure, as a cold group will have a higher PI pressure than a hot group. I suspect that individual users will find that they prefer the 1st, 2nd or 3rd shots, based on what preinfusion pressure gives them the best results for their tastes and the coffee they are using, but the temperature profile of the shot appears to be pretty repeatable based on published results I've seen so far.

Seeing as many folks seem to find that the mighty Cremina does it's best work on shot #2, I'm not too concerned about the approach that the Argos is taking. Of course, we will see how I feel about that once I have one in my hands.

Cheers!

-Jake
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bgn
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#153: Post by bgn »

Great to see a video. I was surprised by the use of a filter screen on top of the puck. I've never used one on any machine. I'm not opposed to it but it surprised me and reading about Strietman users "needing" a top filter is one if the reasons I lost interest in that machine. Still really looking forward to using this machine but am wondering if it will become a weekend toy instead of replacing my Cimbali lever.

bgnome
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#154: Post by bgnome replying to bgn »


I don't think the puck screen is necessary, but it might be required for specific cases, like the Flair 58 and the Robot in place of a shower screen. It certainly helps to keep things clean, but I'm not crazy about the extra workflow steps or maintenance for them.

LObin
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#155: Post by LObin »

Jake_G wrote:That's the whole point of this machine.

Ross has an algorithm that sets an overheated boiler temperature based on the actual temperature of the group and the target brew temperature. This is not designed to be a steady-state shot-pulling machine. It is designed to be ready to pull a shot very quickly and work just fine with a cold group. As the group warms up, the boiler doesn't need to be as hot, so the target boiler temperature decreases shot after shot, which keeps it from overheating. The "ready" light is based on the boiler hitting the target temperature for whatever temperature the group happens to be at.

The biggest variable will be the preinfusion pressure, as a cold group will have a higher PI pressure than a hot group. I suspect that individual users will find that they prefer the 1st, 2nd or 3rd shots, based on what preinfusion pressure gives them the best results for their tastes and the coffee they are using, but the temperature profile of the shot appears to be pretty repeatable based on published results I've seen so far.

Seeing as many folks seem to find that the mighty Cremina does it's best work on shot #2, I'm not too concerned about the approach that the Argos is taking. Of course, we will see how I feel about that once I have one in my hands.

Cheers!

-Jake
Thanks for the explanation Jake. I'm eager for the first machines to ship out. That's when we'll really know how this translates in the cup.
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Jake_G
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#156: Post by Jake_G »

Ross is using the prototype daily and will soon have a cremina on the bench next to it, so he will have a high bar when it comes to benchmarking. I'm cautiously optimistic that we will have some very good results in the cup.
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zix
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#157: Post by zix »

reading about Strietman users "needing" a top filter is one if the reasons I lost interest in that machine
I have never used a top filter on my Strietman, and I don't expect to need one on the Argos either.
The Strietman just needs a good grinder, as most lever machines do, and, I suspect, as will the Argos.
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renatoa
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#158: Post by renatoa »

The "need" is debatable... if the taste change could be a big plus for some people, and unnoticeable for others, there is another reason that should be obvious for anyone, even without using it: you should consider it at least for the big ease that bring to the group maintenance... no more grounds on shower screen, less deposits on group seal.
There are cheap Chinese such screens that are using same mesh as the expensive sold by some "brands".
Buy at least a $5 piece to try, if $40 looks not worth for you... and me too ;)

sambuist
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#159: Post by sambuist »

I'm so excited to see someone take on trying to improve the lever machine for everyday use.

I recently purchased a La Pavoni after years of being in the espresso game. Once I had my routine, it produced shots as good as my decent to the point where I made a profile to emulate the La Pavoni :) . BUT , getting the temp right was a pain, and everything on it was going to burn you so one had to be careful. It did open me up to the lever game and I haven't looked back.

I then got the chance to buy a cremina which is a step up in repeatability and the non-burning factor over the La Pavoni but still needs some temp
Management to be careful not to burn your shots.

If Ross can solve the temp management issues that can take years to learn on either aforementioned machines and produce equivalent shots then this will be a total win for those wanting to enter the world of lever machines.

bgn
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#160: Post by bgn »

I've never considered using a top screen for my porta-filter in my spring lever. Does it affect the grind required? Are paper and metal the same affect?