Ad-85 wrote:Titus costs 8k which is the equivalent of 3 high end titan grinders instead of just one.

Yup. That's why I'm looking at all the other options

Almost Vintage wrote:Interesting. I haven't read up too much about the Brentwood. I don't see it talked about too often with the typical "Titan" models. I've ruled out 98mm flat and am mostly looking at stuff like the Titus drm (crazy expensive), Versalab M4, Option O p64, Weber Key, etc

I've found people using the Evo Leva prefer a grinder that balances brightness with a tad of body, because the Leva manages to extract so well, you don't need crazy high unimodal grind. MC4 is an excellent companion for the Leva, so is the Ditting Lab Sweet, the Bentwood or the Option-O P64 with cast Lab Sweet burrs. If I would do it again, I would go for the P64 with cast LS burrs and properly align it. I just think these grinders are all too similar to justify the more expensive ones. I think hardly anyone could tell the difference in a blind test. Watch Lance Hedricks video on the SSP Lab Sweet burr, he mentions the other grinders, and has a hard time telling any difference.

SSP 98mm flat, properly aligned is so much different from Lab Sweet that you have to have a different workflow apparently.. (I've never had 98mm flat), but the Nautilus is one like that, same price range as Bentwood. If your puck prep isn't spot on, you'll have a hard time. The Flat Max with Shuriken burrs is apparently also a bit more forgiving. The MC4 would be a good choice (very forgiving) if you live in the USA. But like I said, the P64 with LS burrs would be more than enough.

Yeah thats what I'm seeming to notice. I originally wanted a Nautilus, but I don't think that it's the right fit. I'm looking into the Bentwood a bit more now, but Versalab would be my first choice partly due to the workflow

Well I can say the workflow with the Bentwood is great. The grind size adjustment is maybe the finest you can get, there's no locking, you can just turn the ring and grind. If feels so smooth, like adjusting the aperture of an expensive camera lens. I went for the Bentwood partly because of this, since I switch over multiple times per day between light, medium, dark roast espresso and my wife grinds for filter. Absolute joy to use. I solely single dose, so I made an adapter and use a silicone bellows. With two sprays of RDT for 18g beans I get exactly 18g out, so it's well suited for single dosing. I catch the grinds directly in the portafilter, a quick needle stir WDT and tamp, getting 9 to 10/10 shots consistently (by my own standard, comparing to previous HG-One + Strega).

I'll second the workflow on the Bentwood as being smooth and the adjustment and readability of grind bring top-notch.

For me, it's the smallest spritz of RDT at 40-60% RH and a similar bellows with a round one on top that also serves as a cover. The RDT, for me, is mainly to get rid of 5-7 mm "pebbles" that WDT doesn't seem to break up.

You guys are selling me on the Bentwood. I think my inexperienced brain is still having trouble understanding how 63mm burrs can mat h the flavor of the 80 plus mm flats and the drm grinders.

Almost Vintage wrote:You guys are selling me on the Brentwood. I think my inexperienced brain is still having trouble understanding how 63mm burrs can mat h the flavor of the 80 plus mm flats and the drm grinders.

It's all about total grind path. Or grind zones. The path the bean makes after entering the grind area, the stages it goes through, the length it travels while being ground, that has an affect on particle size distribution and consistency. Large 98mm burrs have a relatively large and sometimes even multi staged grind pathway, compared to say, 64mm sized burrs, or smaller. Don't remember who said it (which burr developer) but it was said that to be able use have an optimal three stage grind path you need at least 80mm burrs, to have the surface area available for such geometry. But that's where the Bentwood does something completely out of the ordinary: it pre-grinds the beans via a snail or worm-gear system, effectively making those 63mm burrs more like 98mm burrs, because the size of the pre-cut bean particles relative to the burr size (63mm) is like larger (whole) beans arriving at 98mm burrs.

And another effect this pre-grinding has, is that it ensures a constant, steady and pre-determined feeding of beans to the burrs, which turn at a calculated optimal speed for said feed rate. This ensures that no matter if you feed from a full hopper (with maximum hopper pressure) or an almost empty hopper, or even single-dosing (like I do), the feed rate of the beans remains always the same, and optimal. This is something to consider, if you are looking for commercial grade grinders, but want to use them completely differently (single dosing).

Also, the Bentwood is designed with very large cooling systems, large thermal mass connected to the burrs, so it's high RPM doesn't generate any rise in temperature, some cheaper grinders don't consider this, maybe detrimental to grind quality. The motor is also oversized, as is everything else, so you get a longer service life.

And lastly, the Bentwood is designed with extremely high precision, for which you pay of course.. but I don't think you can get said tolerances for less money.. they need to apply rigorous QC and probably some binning. With some cheaper alternatives, you might get similar tolerances, but you also might not (less binning), so it's a bit of a lottery. With the BW (and Nautilus, and Ditting, and most others in this price range) you don't have to worry about this.

But mostly, this pre-grinding worm-gear is the secret to why the BW produces such amazing grind quality. The MC4 also does something similar, people say it makes a difference, I wonder why we don't see it more often. A user reported he tried pre-grinding and feeding these small bean chips to his Niche and also got better results.

I just like the workflow of the BW, the looks, and the ease of mind that I couldn't really get any better results, anything wrong with my coffee is all on me to blame, not my gear Same goes for the Evo Leva, nobody can fault it.. it's all my fault if it doesn't turn out great Peace of mind is worth a lot. And it does turn out great, thankfully, by god does it turn out great. Now, not only is the caffeine addictive, but also the taste. I can hardly wait for the night to end and a new day to begin! hahaha

Ah ok so that's why people are putting up there with larger burr grinders. I didn't know that. Well with that, I'll definitely have to look into it further... and see if someone can make me the single dose mod to replace the hopper if I do get it.

I had Nate's design printed 80% infill and delivered for around $13 using Treatstock as a vendor. If you want more info, PM me so we can get this back into the Evo Leva.

Thanks for the offer. Will do if I go this route!

My apologies for the tangent.

On topic: I paid my deposit and went with white with the wood trim. They said it should be around 20 days until they ship it. Pretty excited to say the least.