ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva - Consecutive shots and long shots - Page 2

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
macaber8 (original poster)

#11: Post by macaber8 (original poster) »

I am nor sure how I feel about the comment.

This review does look legit, and with exact information I was looking for.

macaber8 (original poster)

#12: Post by macaber8 (original poster) »

Cuprajake wrote:
Hi Cuprajake, I can't thank you enough for this video. I realized you might have uploaded this video to answer my questions. Please let me know if I can be at your service in any way in the future.

I cannot believe the group temperature is this stable!!!

For convenience of other readers, here is what I gathered from your video:

Are you actually using different techniques pulling these shots? The shot duration is quite different.

macaber8 (original poster)

#13: Post by macaber8 (original poster) »

NelisB wrote:The Evo has heating cartridges in the group. These are controlled by a PID. PID is set to keep group temperature constant during extraction. But you can also have the group temp decline, like a traditional lever or you could even rise the temp during extraction. I believe most of us keep temp constant. I never heard anyone complain about temp stability.
Hi NelisB,

Thanks for the comment. I can see PID rise the temp during extraction or keep temp constant. However, we only have a heater here, so I think the best temp decline is to turn off the PID and heater such that the group works as if there is not heater.

And follow up question: when you manipulate the group temperature during a shot, do you do this through a setting or do you do this by tricking the machine?

macaber8 (original poster)

#14: Post by macaber8 (original poster) »

pizzaman383 wrote:The temperature of a lever group doesn't always match the temperature of the water hitting the coffee. The fact that the group head temperature never moves during and after a shot when the water temperature shows that it is 6 degrees C different doesn't match what typically happens when hotter water hits a colder group. PID-controlled heaters can't keep the group temperature from rising as it should when hotter water hits the group.
Very accurate statement. It is a group heater not a group temperature heater and cooler in the same time.

macaber8 (original poster)

#15: Post by macaber8 (original poster) »

Cuprajake wrote:I'd take them with a pinch of salt the guys so far up his own arse it's untrue

I answered a question on his Facebook page, with a link to a forum and he immediately banned and blocked me.

Your better of speaking with owners of the actual machine not some bloke who spent a few hours with a demo machine
I am very sorry to hear they did that to you! Not cool.

Thanks for the video! I wanted to make sure I can do 2 consecutive shots in the morning, and your video shows that I can do 5 shots in a row at least.

bakafish

#16: Post by bakafish »

pizzaman383 wrote:The temperature of a lever group doesn't always match the temperature of the water hitting the coffee. The fact that the group head temperature never moves during and after a shot when the water temperature shows that it is 6 degrees C different doesn't match what typically happens when hotter water hits a colder group. PID-controlled heaters can't keep the group temperature from rising as it should when hotter water hits the group.
Exactly on my Nurri Leva. I had used a thermofilter to test it. The grouphead temperature sensor is near the cartridge heater, so it cannot show the real water temperature in the grouphead immediately. You can see the grouphead temperature on the PID changes only when the water temperature is much higher or lower than the grouphead temperature.

Besides, the grouphead temperature is actually lower than it shows on the PID by about 2-3 degrees C. I think it is also resulted from the sensor is installed near the cartridge heater and they are near the neck of the grouphead. You can know this when you turn on the machine from cold and touch the grouphead neck and body to feel the temperature difference.

The water temperature declines about 4 degrees C from the boiler to the grouphead. If I want to pull a shot with 92 degrees C, I have to set the boiler temperature to 96 and grouphead to 94. I also tried to set the coffee boiler temperature to 116 degrees C and grouphead to 80 degrees C. When the water hit the thermofilter, it was very hot, and I saw the grouphead temperature was over 80. When I lifted the lever, I turned off the machine to make sure the PID was not working although it should have been stopped when the grouphead temperature showed on the PID was over 80 degrees C. Surprisingly, the water temperature went down to 9X degrees C quickly and kept there till the end, not declining.

macaber8 (original poster)

#17: Post by macaber8 (original poster) »

Great observation. I am very much sold on the Vesuvius but would like to learn more about Nurri Leva, given it is one of the few true competitor within similar price range.

How do you measure real group temperature after water hit the puck?

What other machine or lever machine could do this better?

Oskuk

#18: Post by Oskuk »

macaber8 wrote:
there are a lot of complaints about temperature stability on lever machines in general.
I guessa those are the guys that has seen a conversation of Europiccola, and own a Sage themselves...

Cuprajake

#19: Post by Cuprajake »

hi,

i was using an old bean so guessed the grind on the first dial, and then moved it on the second and as i wasnt going to drink them didnt pull all at the same time, with my setup its hard to film the display and work round the camera and tripod,

but yeah im very happy with it,

when you pull the lever theres about a 100ml injection of water into the boiler, and it recovers quick enough for me,

id love a scace but £400 for a tiny bit of playing is a bit ott for me,

as its dual boiler it works totally different to other levers out there, how much influence 60-70ml of boiler water has on the group i dont know. but you can taste differences in beans going from say 90/90 to 92/98 same bean

pizzaman383
Supporter ♡

#20: Post by pizzaman383 »

Back to the questions the OP had.

My experience with my 3-PID double boiler lever shows that the best temperature stability and the most consistent shot temperatures come when the water hitting the group head is nearly the same temperature as the group head. This means that the water doesn't heat up the group head very much which means that the shot water temperature will have the minimum amount of variation.

The lever group is still a big lump of metal that radiates heat away so there is some heating as water flows through then cooling afterwards. Whether you can taste the impact of those temperature swings depends on the coffee and how sensitive is your taster.
Curtis
LMWDP #551
“Taste every shot before adding milk!”