1957 Urania 2nd gen refurb - Page 4

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Marcelnl
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#31: Post by Marcelnl »

it's called a hutmutter at TSE, but I may have bought the last triangle one together with the last excenter rod, I do not think it matters if it's triangle shaped or square like this one. I found the steam/water valve to be deliciously complicated and I dread the day I need to overhaul it again...
In some pictures there is a steel ring that sits between the excenter and the 'hutmutter, acting as a smoother gliding surface, I have never found it anywhere.

perhaps this one? https://www.tse.at/nl/shop/product_info ... -12mm.html
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Paul_Pratt

#32: Post by Paul_Pratt »

Ascaso used to sell the part but they stopped many years ago unfortunately.



I would try straightening the bent valve. The triangular section is just to allow water through and as long as the valve is free to move inside the body you will be ok. I can't give any tips on how to bend it back as brass is quite brittle, annealing seems to make it worse too.

Essentially the valve is the same as in an E61 group but you need that back stem section, that prevents the valve from moving back too far.

Marcelnl
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#33: Post by Marcelnl »

I think TSE carries all the parts, I do not think the square shape works that much different than the triangle shaoe, if needed yoiu could always shave off some metal with a file.
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mingiunate (original poster)

#34: Post by mingiunate (original poster) »

I made some progress on the hard parts I'd been procrastinating over since I knew it would involve some destruction: the drip tray and the boiler.

The drip tray's last two hopelessly seized screws was holding the plexi hostage. With the help of a nut splitter I was able to remove them and finally get to cleaning the plexi and drip tray.







I was not looking forward to working on the boiler. I kept applying liquid wrench and picking at the rust around the bolts and in hopes to get the ring to come off without too much force, but it was fused solidly to the bolts. In the end I decided the best way forward was to use a chisel and hammer to lift it off the flange and break it up, being as careful as possible so as not to mess up the flange. In the end the ring came apart in 8 pieces. It's quite a bit thicker than the replacement ring from Brooks. With the ring off, a few taps with the chisel on the gasket separated the flange quite easily exposing the original gasket and a little layer of scale.







A few questions for the pros here on the next steps:
  • Out of curiosity, what was the boiler gasket made of?
  • Should I soak the whole boiler in citric acid for a few hours? Days? Weeks?
  • Whats the best way to go about getting the 9 bolts out of the boiler, and 2 element bolts out of the flange?
  • Should I remove them before soaking in citric acid or after?
  • Whats the best way to get the paint off the outside of the boiler?

Marcelnl
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#35: Post by Marcelnl »

If you can remove the threads on the boiler I'd do it before descaling, removing them may be a PITA...I shied away from doing it when I refurbished the Urania a few months ago so others may be of help there.

I descaled what scale there was in mine (yours appears to look pretty good inside the boiler too) in warm citric acid for a few hours, I'd descale before removing paint to preserve the outside as much as possible.
Getting rid of the paint...hrrmm depends on what paint it is, but paintstripper comes to mind. There are less horrible paintstrippers nowadays but I'd wash the boiler very thoroughly inside and out afterwards.
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medicalcoffee

#36: Post by medicalcoffee »

Regarding the stubborn bolts you can try applying heat with a torch until they nudge.

maximatica
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#37: Post by maximatica »

FWIW, stuck bolts are best loosened with an impact wrench.

I was skeptical about this but some years back I had a nut on an Audi fuel pump that would just not come loose.

Soft fuel pipes were starting to bend before it moved even a little bit.

After a long time (many weeks) and many different types of attempts to get it loose I asked a high-end Porsche mechanic and he said to use an impact wrench.

I was doubtful but I did remember that I had an air wrench that I had never had occasion to use before and got it out to the car.

Pulled the trigger and "zip" it was off. Turns out the impact makes a really big difference.

Anyway, I am going to go through my Saab suspension and in anticipation of that, I looked onto the current market.
.
Turns out there are now pretty decent Lithium powered units in the $75-$200 range and they are even stronger than the older air-powered units.

Hope This Helps (others, since you are already past these steps).

Thanks,

M./

Sw1ssdude

#38: Post by Sw1ssdude »

be cautionary around your old gaskets, also the ones in your valves, they are very likely to be made from, or having added, asbestos.

Its good practice to disassemble valves under water, in a bucket or a sink, to keep asbestos fibers from becoming airborne dust.

For the studs:
maybe try inductive heating. automotive shops sometimes have inductive heaters for studs, which heat up cylinder studs extremely fast, to red hot and beyond. you can do the same with a gas torch, but get them really hot. go check out stud removal on old ford Flathead V8 engines on youtube as 'inspiration', i think the hot-rodders and espresso machine refurbishers are in the same boat, when it comes to stud removal...

Impact guns are great, but tricky on studs without heads: you'll have to wedge two nuts against each other on the stud threads, and apply force on the one closer to the boiler (and therefore obstructed by the outer nut). i have yet to figure out the removal of studs with impact guns.

For descaling:
you can protect the outer boiler by plugging up all holes and just filling the boiler like a bucket, with citric acid or similar, or pad the inside with soaked kitchen towels, or thicken your citric acid with gelatine or plain corn starch, and use it similar to paint stripper (brush on - brush off... according to Miyagi-san)
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espressotime

#39: Post by espressotime »

So the Urania is a pure dipper?

mingiunate (original poster)

#40: Post by mingiunate (original poster) »

maximatica wrote:FWIW, stuck bolts are best loosened with an impact wrench.

I was skeptical about this but some years back I had a nut on an Audi fuel pump that would just not come loose.

Soft fuel pipes were starting to bend before it moved even a little bit.

After a long time (many weeks) and many different types of attempts to get it loose I asked a high-end Porsche mechanic and he said to use an impact wrench.

I was doubtful but I did remember that I had an air wrench that I had never had occasion to use before and got it out to the car.

Pulled the trigger and "zip" it was off. Turns out the impact makes a really big difference.

Anyway, I am going to go through my Saab suspension and in anticipation of that, I looked onto the current market.
.
Turns out there are now pretty decent Lithium powered units in the $75-$200 range and they are even stronger than the older air-powered units.

Hope This Helps (others, since you are already past these steps).

Thanks,

M./
I did some work on the studs this weekend.
I got the first off by heating a stud, dousing it with penetrating oil, and using the double nut method, it took almost 30 mins, and there were a few times where I felt it might shear under the torque of the wrench. After the one came out, I had to stop and think, since I knew this approach was going to have a low overall success rate.

But the impact wrench comment gave me a great idea. While I didn't have an impact wrench, I did have an impact driver, and i got two items for it:

A socket adapter set for the impact driver: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010G ... =UTF8&th=1
And a stud extractor tool: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QX ... UTF8&psc=1

I latched the tool on to the bolts, inserted the socket into the adapter, and about 10 seconds later, the stud was out!
The next 7 studs, including one of the sheared ones, also zipped right out.





As a bonus I also got the dipper tube out using a 19mm socket in my makeshift impact wrench.



I still have one of the sheared studs that the tool just couldn't get a good grip on. There is about 4mm of very worn stud sticking out, so I will need to decide if I should attempt to drill it out, or possibly try my hand at welding a nut and continuing to try the "impact wrench". Does anyone know what method to use to weld? and will a welded nut stand up to the torque of the "impact wrench"? Also, any recommended sources for replacement M10 studs?

One other oddity:
I noticed the number "2" etched into the boiler by one of the studs


It seems to be at the 12 o'clock position, I wonder if its a marker to help orient the plugs?