1956 Gaggia Internazionale 1 Group - Page 3

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TomC
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#21: Post by TomC »

Congrats bro. It went to a good home.
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yakster
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#22: Post by yakster »

I wish you didn't live on the other side of the country because I would love a chance behind the cockpit of a single group Internazionale.
-Chris

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IamOiman (original poster)
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#23: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

I have someone potentially visiting from the west coast to check out the machines, you too can do it!

Sorry I just had to add a few more photos, it's in awesome condition but I discovered it has the asbestos blanket around the boiler (in very nice condition actually) so I will be doing disassembly outside/in the garage when I begin this project. Check out the marker on the group to show how to orient the lever! Very cool stuff.




-Ryan
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IamOiman (original poster)
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#24: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

So, after I found out about the asbestos I decided to proceed forward with disassembly of the machine. I first moved the gaggia back onto the cart in the garage and brought it outside before I started to remove the asbestos.

The body panel is a single piece, and is held on the frame by two machine screws on the top with a top bracket and two bolts on the bottom. The three machine screws that hold the side front brackets are simply to hold those bracket pieces and do not connect to the body panel. Every piece has 5858 stamped on it, really cool assosciation that these pieces were specifically manufactured for this specific machine. The panel is begging for a cleaning too!





These are my tools when dealing with asbestos (please please please do not touch the stuff if you are unsure and are uncomfortable with how to deal with the stuff):

garbage bags (plural for double or triple bagging)
P100 filter mask with NEW filters (they only are gauranteed to work 1 month after opening a filter pair)
disposable gloves
water spray bottle

Thankfully with the Internazionale the Asbestos is not adhered to any pieces and instead just rests on the boiler and supported by a flexible shell. I did not initially realize the Gaggia had asbestos due to this shell as it covers the insulation when looking at the boiler from above. I also was facing where the wind was blowing into my back when taking off the asbestos, and I immediately triple bagged the material and then sealed each bag where it is tied up with duct tape. It will be disposed of as dictated by my town. The water bottle was for spraying the asbestos as it is not harmful when the material is wet. I also wiped down the boiler after to pick up any potential fibers that were resting on the boiler. Also LOOK AT THE SIZE OF ITS FOOT. I AM IN AWE OF THE SIZE OF THAT LAD






I was pleased to see there was a capped off fitting on the lid as I can use that for my vacuum valve and p-stat I intend to install. Also note this is considered the Small boiler size seen on this model (there is a bigger version I think that is just for the electric model but please correct me if I am wrong). What is interesting to note is the fitting is only a threaded rod that is secured by a hex nut (ie they are two separate pieces). Really weird design. I continued onwards and experimentally gently worked on the boiler bolts to see if I would be facing a challenge with the boiler. Surprisingly even with the grunge and rust all of the boiler bolts eventually came off except for one, which snapped (the one at about 1 o'clock). One of the boiler holes was retapped to a larger M10 thread compared to the original M8 size.




The heating element studs look nasty but some of the studs (not the hex nut) started unscrewing without much effort. In the end I took off two studs and nothing snapped (shown with one of the elements already taken out).




I eventually got the lid and the elements to pop off the boiler, and I could quickly see the issue. Multiple heating element studs were something mild and rusted inside overtime. In fact you can see one of the nuts that held the now crumbled studs just hanging out inside :D . I too like an iron rich diet! You can also see that one snapped bolt. I am really surprised it was that specific one that broke. I was expecting the very bottom bolt to be the misbehaving bolt but here we are!





I next worked on the wobbler weight fitting. Note I was heating everything up with my MAP Pro torch, and for this specific fitting I heated it up then doused it in penetrating oil. Using my 26mm chamferless socket that I originally bought for my Faemina I was able to loosen it after some whacking with my deadblow hammer. Note that the chrome drain that screws onto the pipe that siphons water away from the wobbler weight dish needs to be unscrewed in order to take off the drain pipe.




I was able to take off the boiler gasket cleanly by getting a small flathead screwdriver and taping it from behind where the gasket slightly protruded further outwards than the boiler. Once I got a little to peel off I could get under the gasket in other spots and eventually it popped off in once piece!


The elements are different in design, and only one I could read the date (1951) as the other one was covered in grime. I'll let you know the date of that one when I clean it. I'll admit I am pretty excited to see how to deal with the snapped boiler bolt and learn out to drill and retap the hole. I also hope to see if I can learn to braze on a brass threaded plug into the heating element flange to cover up the holes there too! I also have the exact date of manufacture (at least for the boiler) of 18 January 1956!

-Ryan
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#25: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

Continuing onwards this morning with disassembly, I focused on taking off the four valves that directly connect to the boiler. It's really strange not dealing with any compression fitting pipes. The top two valves (the upper water level/manometer and steam valves) actually unscrewed without much resistance and did not need a deadblow hammer. The size of the hex that allows me to place a wrench on the fitting is a strange size that is between 24 and 25mm. Perhaps it is 31/32 in but I do not have a wrench that size so I was left with using an adjustable wrench. Not my 1st choice but it works, I just need to take care of not scratching the backsplash while using it.



The drip tray is held by two hex bolts that attach to the chrome foot in the front. A gasket was present on one of them but missing for the other one, probably to prevent water from leaking into the threads. Taking off the drip tray exposes the lower valves for me to work on. Also note the 5858 stamped on the foot piece. The water inlet has a strange assembly that goes from 1/4 BSP to 1/2 BSP as written on one the adaptor fittings that I needed to take off first or the water inlet valve would not be able to spin around when I loosened it. I am unsure of the purpose of the third piece that attaches to the adaptor fitting, perhaps a conversion to some esoteric thread type.




The lower valves needed more pursuation to come loose. I heated them up (not too much to protect the chrome from blemishing) and squirted some more penetrating fluid. I came back after some time and was able to eventually get both off with a few gentle wacks from the deadblow hammer. I had to make sure my adjustable wrench was snug on the hex part of the valve so it did not dig into the metal. I also had to place the front chrome foot on the crate wall or else the lower left valve would not have fit during turning and instead touch the crate base.

With the valves off I just need to get the group disassembled and then the backsplash can be taken off to access the four boiler slotted flathead screws that secure it to the frame. I am waiting for my tool to return that I lent out to a friend that was working on his Gaggia lever group before I can work on disassembling my lever group. I was really happy with where those screws where placed as I did not need to worry about damaging the tubes that connect to each valve to the boiler.




The big round foot in the back is secured by a thin hex nut 22mm in diameter. I went out and bought a steel wire brush to clean off the surface rust to see if I could get the nut loose. In fact I was able to successfully do this but I will keep the foot on until the boiler is taken off.




The four valves are now off and I can start disassembling them (perhaps later today but probably tomorrow). One of the valves I saw the nut that secures the gasket to the 'plunger' sheared off from the worn away thread, and the gasket is in fact still in the valve iteslf. I may run into that issue with the other valves but perhaps a solution can be found to add material and retap the thread or see if a replica can be acquired (hint hint Paul, I saw those Gaggia parts you were experimenting with :D )




One last thing to note is the water sight is actually not glass but in fact is a silicone tube! I'll need to get the measurement needed for the glass height but it looks really tall. If I was a betting man a Mercurio glass replica would fit it.
-Ryan
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#26: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

Looks like it's just me doing the talking in this thread :D

I disassembled each valve as they would let me. Let's take a look at each valve and then I'll show how far I could get them disassembled. The hot water valve and lower water sight valve is a single assembly. It's a really unusual shape compared to other valves I've dealt with. There are two spare threads that could be used for the gas regulator (if it has one) and for something else as desired, say a dedicated boiler drain if you don't want to just open the hot water wand valve. The vise got some use in this process.





The upper sight level valve



The inlet and steam valves are identical except for the length of the plunger rod that the knob attaches to. The long one is the inlet and the short one is the steam valve. These ones have been giving me the most trouble as the hex fitting supporting the rods are very stuck on the valves.




After going through the ultrasonic cleaner with citric acid I removed as much hemp as I could while it was wet and disposed of it immediately. I swear they stuffed over a yard of the stuff in each fitting. I also threw in the hot water and steam pipes and it soaked for about 3 hours with 15 minute cycles with the ultrasonic function.




The built up scale was mostly cleaned off and I could further get the valves apart. Right now it's just those two stubborn 28mm hex fittings and capped off fitting on the hot water valve that remain to be unscrewed. I really do not like how far apart the hex fitting is from where I would brace the valve in my vise, thus have a question to ask: how likely is it I could shear the valve body if I exert too much force before the hex fittings come loose? And is there a recommendation that can be given on how I should proceed?

-Ryan
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#27: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

Well the best solution to a problem is to leave it be and think about it for a bit before something bad happens when in a hurry. I elected to heat up each valve and get some penetrating oil in the threads. I went back to the remaining bits on the Gaggia today.

The grouphead was inspected before I took it off. The spring is very weak and corroded so I will not have an issue disassembling it after taking it off the frame (and is also how I did it with my Gaggia LL) when my tool arrives. The shutoff valve was stuck in the back which I think is common with the group. I will look at it more when the group is in pieces. The inlet tube is brazed to a capped fitting behind the group. I am unsure if it is possible to unscrew it from the group right now. I forgot how heavy this thing is, 10kg is huge!




The chrome foot was the last piece that secured the backsplash to the frame via two M8 studs. They are in an awkward position, especially the top one. That was probably why they were not tightened very much. Taking them off allows the chrome foot to come off then the backsplash. I bet it will cleanup very nicely!



With the backsplash off the four flat slotted screws reveal themselves. The first thing I did was to shock them loose with my new impact driver. I have a variety of bits to use on the oversized slots like the ones on the boiler. It allows me to place a shot force on the screw, and after a heating session and a wack or two all of them were free of their grime. However, I first went to take off the group studs. They look to be in decent condition so I was optimistic in getting all four out. I heated each one for 45 seconds with my MAP Pro torch and doused each one with penetrating oil to thermally shock the threads. It must have been my lucky day as all four eventually yielded with a snug push from my vise grips. In fact they were in nice condition considering their age!









The boiler was then taken off and at this point it's just the big foot and a rusty slotted screw that remain at the base of the frame. That screw is to hold a bracket that is missing to support the boiler.




From here it's time to continue the cleaning process! Let's see what I can unearth under the grime :D
-Ryan
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#28: Post by harrisonpatm »

IamOiman wrote:Looks like it's just me doing the talking in this thread :D
I pay attention to all of your threads. You're very thorough, you take a picture of everything at every angle, you detail all your steps, you admit your mistakes so people can avoid it in the future.

I probably am not alone is saying, you do awesome work, I have nothing to add!

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IamOiman (original poster)
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#29: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

I managed to get the rusty screw off the base of the frame that holds the missing bracket with my impact driver. I heated it up and sprayed penetrating oil, and after coming back later I got the screw to start loosening with some healthy wacks. The foot may be more difficult as I am pretty certain now after some private messaging that it screws in the frame. Damn.


The valves made no headway so I squirted some more penetrating oil, this time inside the valve. I am showing a comparison of the one taken off for shipment by Pascal and the ones that are stuck. I am really confused why they are so tight on. I fitted a form fitting rod into the side hole and gave a few gentle raps ccw and cw direction to see if the threads would get shocked and am letting them soak more.






So after the boiler and lid were taken off yesterday I threw them into a bin of citric acid (it was like 1 1/4 cups of citric acid in 7-8 gallons of water give or take). I heated the water up with a small 1000W heating element I have and covered the bin with a top then 3 blankets to keep the heat in. I let them soak for 36 hours give or take and I took them out for inspection today to see what could be hidden under the grime. Every few hours I would take off the blankets open the lid and take a brass bristle brush to clean off gasket residue on all surfaces to pretty good effect.







The little man shows himself! So here are my comments on it. The snapped bolt will definitely need to be drilled out, almost nothing is sticking out for me to grasp or weld a nut to. The retapped M10 thread looks really wild, but crazily enough I thread a bolt in fine but I am still unsure if I can use that threaded hole safely/properly. It looks like multiple holes were drilled before a thread was made. There are hard deposits in the boiler, so I hope to plug the group hole on the bottom and the safely valve hole and just fill the boiler with citric acid so I can heat it better with my element. There is some lingering rust at the bottom of the boiler too but most of it came off during the first soak.





The boiler lid looks to be the bigger job. I have no idea why but someone decided to braze mild metal studs into the flange with at least three of the exposed to the inside of the boiler! Something will need to be done about that, I was imaging brazing some inserts that cover the holes and have a thread to accept new studs. More thought is needed.


-Ryan
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Sansibar99
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#30: Post by Sansibar99 »

Great work, Ryan.

For the element studs you might look into something like this:
http://dakingfasteners.com/cpzxMJ/info_ ... 132&cid=43
Flat Head Closed End Blind Rivet Nuts in brass, you could braze this in the boiler lid.

Or hexagon domecap nuts in brass as a more massive solution.

Either way, you can check on your other projects for solutions: the boiler lid of the Lambro has something like the blind rivet nuts, my Urania had something like the hex domecap nuts on the inside of the boiler lid flange.
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