Third Wave Water - Page 4

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
joalepins
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#31: Post by joalepins »

bigdaub wrote:Yes it is anoying getting explicit hate mail in my inbox because someone didn't care to do a little research before they posted a story.

On the bright side we are making a stretch goal on our Kickstarter campaign for 2-part mixture formulated for espresso machines. I know it may not be for most of you hear but for those who want an easy, ready to go solution for their espresso machine, this can help them out.
New formula made for espresso only or is it the same but different mixture method ?

Already placed my order, hope it'll be fine for espresso ...

bigdaub
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#32: Post by bigdaub replying to joalepins »

No our current formula has no bi-carbonates, they cant be added to a one part system without having a chemical reaction in the mixture. There is some concern with espresso machines given there extreme temperature, pressure etc... A system with two parts would make a more balanced water, with less chances for corrosion (It may not be as great for flavor but machine maintenance must be weighed as a factor).

The difficulty is measuring the small amount accurately and repeatably. Epsom salt is a fairly large crystal which causes a great deal of variability when dosing. Once we grind it down and mix it with calcium citrate it become a homogeneous mixture that can easily flow and be measured out. We currently using automatic gun powder dosing scales to dispense and weigh the mixture, I just had to replace all the shielded bearings with sealed ones. This setup makes the dosing accurate up to about 20mg from dose to dose (1500mg total weight).

When we scale our packaging to a more automated system (stick packaging) we will have to find a good system that is accurate in dosing. I am looking at several auger based filling approaches. With a consistent particle size and a homogeneous mixture we can ensure the least amount of TDS variability from stick to stick.

All that to say a two part system will add complexity. Each stick will have to be smaller in weight (more potential variability) so the system we use fore dosing will need to be monitored more closely to ensure consistent accurate measurements.

joalepins
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#33: Post by joalepins replying to bigdaub »

And the easy answer would be ?!? :oops:

Did I order the mix that can work with espresso or not ? In a previous post you told me that this could be used in espresso machines.

bigdaub
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#34: Post by bigdaub replying to joalepins »

I think it will be fine with your espresso machine but there are some who think over the long term there may be corrosion. Corrosion is highly dependent on type of metal, make up of the water to include free oxygen and carbon dioxide, temperature, pressure, etc... We are performing some internal corrosion tests as well as having some independent ones ran.

Its like any industry. There is a product made and a group of users who like to push that product to its limit (e.g cars and computers). The manufacturer will say they don't recommend adjusting any of the parameters but plenty of enthusiast regularly push those limits. Its what makes many hobbies more fun :D

A second formula would be one that stays within the comfort zone of manufactures. It wont push the limits but will help you easily stay within the recommended parameters.

If you have reservations I would suggest not using it on your espresso machine. If you reply to your order email I can refund you.

Sorry again for the long answer, I dont want to mislead anyone - Taylor

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rpavlis
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#35: Post by rpavlis »

It is not such a good idea to put either citrates or halides in water. The idea here is NOT to make a culture medium for micro organisms. There are many bacteria that can live with citrate as their sole energy and carbon source. The idea is to make decent espresso or other coffee drink, again not a culture medium for growing bacteria.

The really important ionic material needed is carbonate-bicarbonate because it maintains a pH level that influences what elutes and what does not, and also changes the pH level of the final product. One should also look at the ion analysis to see what is already in the beans themselves. There are truly large portions of potassium in beans, and a LOT of Mg and Ca too. We really do not need to drink the periodic table here!

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keno
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#36: Post by keno »

rpavlis wrote:It is not such a good idea to put either citrates or halides in water. The idea here is NOT to make a culture medium for micro organisms. There are many bacteria that can live with citrate as their sole energy and carbon source. The idea is to make decent espresso or other coffee drink, again not a culture medium for growing bacteria.
Robert, thanks for the interesting info! I realize you're a chemist and not a micro-biologist but do you know what level of citrates would pose a potential risk? Also, assuming users use TWW for brewing and mix it right before using then that shouldn't be an issue? It would only be an issue when the water is going to sit for long periods - e.g., in an espresso machine tank, correct?

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keno
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#37: Post by keno »

Sprudge weighs in on the TWW controversy:
Why Do Food Media Elites Hate Third Wave Water?
Zac Cadwalader wrote:There have been a number of articles to come out recently that have really been giving the business to Third Wave Water, the new mineral capsules that optimize purified water for making coffee.

lagoon
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#38: Post by lagoon »

I have some concerns about this. We're talking about a product that involves adding a chemical cocktail to water to supposedly improve its taste when making coffee.

But who judges the 'right' taste? For example, when preparing food, different people use different amounts of salt, pepper, chilli, etc to suit their taste.

By the same token, in the case of TWW, the chemical recipe might be right for one drinker, but wrong for another.

I hope this isn't the moment the coffee industry "jumped the shark"!

centralvalleycoffee
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#39: Post by centralvalleycoffee replying to lagoon »


I haven't tried this product yet but I believe the main goal is consistency. distilled water or RO water has all of the local contaminates removed and you then add the selected minerals back into the water. As for the 'right' taste, thats very hard to answer as everyone perceives flavors in their own way but I really like the idea of clearing the slate of things that could change the taste of my coffee. One day when I try this I will be able to say if it works for my taste buds. Who knows, maybe someday they could offer slightly different formulations. Without trying it myself I can't say if this will be necessary or not. I hope they get funded as this sounds like a great idea.

Royce

thecoffeefield
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#40: Post by thecoffeefield »

I'm still confused, can these be used in auto drip machines like the Behmor Brazzen Plus without causing damages? I understand holding off on using in espresso machine (especially with brass boiler I guess) but what about auto drip