Having dealt with PayPal from the buyers end of a dispute I would say both the buyer and the seller have their day in "court." That is...after the buyer fills out a claims form, the seller is given 90 days to respond (I believe that's the correct number of days). I would say you have a good chance of winning this since the buyer threw away the packaging (no pics), no evidence, therefore no proof that the buyer did not damage the machine during the unpack.

Hi to the seller..and the other responders..

Everyone is being very decent with their replies here I must say.

I think he/she is being a total ar#e and has not a foot to stand on..!!
Surely it is is fair and reasonable to expect they action any damage on receipt of the item.
Also...Im not sure if you discussed whether they wanted to insure the item as additional cost on top of the freight/delivery.
In any case I would be contacting PayPal in the FIRST INSTANCE to discuss the claim against your sale/purchase and see what they say re the ridiculous time frame. Approach it with a fair and kindly manner and you well may find you get a sympathetic ear at their customer support dept. They would be dealing with these sorts of issues every hour of every day!

All the best and kind regards from New Zealand.

Unfortunately the world of consumer/2nd hand trading has many variables. I have over 1000+ transactions to my name, including multiple espresso machines (none shipped though) and can count the 'bad' transactions comfortably on one hand.

Having said that; I stick to a few basic rules:
- It's sold when I have the money on my bank account
- A Dutch saying goes; warranty until the doorstep. I.e. a customer wanting to ship an item? Sure, I'll do my very best to pack it well, but if anything happens it's your fault
- An item breaks or damages, or is the wrong size or not to your satisfaction? You should've picked it up as I would've recommended in the first place.

To my knowledge, I've only experienced once that an item broke during shipment. A grey area is when an item is not delivered and T&T shows that, but was always able to resolve that. All in all I'm very risk averse in these type of sitatutions. Also honest/upfront about what the buy can expect to minimize the room for any surprisement/disappointment. My ultimate goal is that the buyer has just a pleasurable experience as I had, and maybe even a little more than if he/she would've bought it new, and I guess I always succeeded.

Having said that; if you acted in a similar way, that would clear my consience and unfortunately call it a buyers-risk. (S)/he could've chosen to insure it or pick it up, at the very least be quick and precise about any damages by making pictures and contacting within a day or 2 at the most. In those cases II might be a bit more lenient (little chance though, I'm fairly principled in cases where I feel I did nothing wrong).

I doubt PayPal is going to help the buyer. Too late, no evidence.

Have you had any trouble with PayPal policy though? Most examples I see online show basically the buyer can file a claim at any time 180 days after payment and basically they can request a refund at any time during then and the seller can ask for the item to be sent back (buyer pays shipping back) but otherwise it's usually ruled in favor of the buyer.

I believe these rules are for professional sellers and with new items, and does not apply to used items between individuals.

rwang wrote:Have you had any trouble with PayPal policy though? Most examples I see online show basically the buyer can file a claim at any time 180 days after payment and basically they can request a refund at any time during then and the seller can ask for the item to be sent back (buyer pays shipping back) but otherwise it's usually ruled in favor of the buyer.

Forget that, PP has grown wiser and less customer oriented.. A friend of mine is in a dispute over a shipment of 2 rare (read expensive) electron tubes he bought off Ebay paid through PP, only 1 arrived and that one was defective, one is missing. Now he is going through hoops to get a refund, up to the point where he was told to get a expertise report drawn up...go figure, finding and paying a certified expert to measure a vintage (rare as heck) tube...You start the process at PP, once that is finished your time to start a claim with Ebay is over.

Update; just heard he finally got a refund....took about 4 months though.

I've shipped many a stereo amplifier and they are more fragile that a coffee machine. Usually, the damage is on the shipper. Things need to be able to withstand a 3' vertical drop.

We once went to pickup a shipment of tube amps, expensive gear....and we were early enough to see the plane get unloaded (that was pre 9/11 when you still could drive around the cargo docks at the airport).
The pallet with gear got dropped to the ground straight from the cargo door, so yes packaging needs to at least survice 3ft drops, and sometimes more....everything had to be returned.

Tell him to kick rocks...you were more than reasonable.

Sorry you're going through this, and I hope it works out.

When I sold an espresso machine and shipped it at the buyer's expense, the buyer arranged the shipping and emailed me a label. So he could initiate a claim if anything went wrong. I also packed it according to his very specific instructions and took photos of the entire process to document it. I hope it arrived in one piece, but if it didn't, he was able to take care of it.