Scales and design - Page 2

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jpender

#11: Post by jpender »

The Tanita KP-400M is specified to be 0.5 inches thick. That would convert to 11-15mm. So I guess it's still too thick. Every morning I have to lock in the portafilter before I squeeze the cup onto the scale. I never think: "Why isn't there a skinnier scale?" I always think: "Why didn't the espresso machine designer allow a little bit more space for this?"

I may be misremembering but didn't somebody on HB post about making some sort of thin extension to their scale for espresso?

ziptie

#12: Post by ziptie »

Acaia's tiny Pyxis model is 13mm thick. I haven't seen any thinner than that. I've seen it in person. It's really tiny! Its price is not tiny :/
https://acaia.co/products/pyxis

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Espressoman007 (original poster)

#13: Post by Espressoman007 (original poster) »

jpender wrote:The Tanita KP-400M is specified to be 0.5 inches thick. That would convert to 11-15mm. So I guess it's still too thick. Every morning I have to lock in the portafilter before I squeeze the cup onto the scale. I never think: "Why isn't there a skinnier scale?" I always think: "Why didn't the espresso machine designer allow a little bit more space for this?"

I may be misremembering but didn't somebody on HB post about making some sort of thin extension to their scale for espresso?
Haha, that's a good point. Indeed, I was wondering the same thing. But, developers, designers, manufacturers like Strietman, small ones (but bigger ones as well)...they have to calculate every little detail so they could make as much profit as they can. And it's not just one calculation, he also has to calculate how much money that thing should cost after it's done, but also to manage the amount of money he would be satisfied with.
If he increases that gap, that would mean that the geometry would change, he can do that only if he magnifies all the elements, makes a bigger construction. But also, that would mean a more expensive product. Instead of 2800 euros, it would probably cost 5000 euros.
Yes, I think that CT2 could be bigger with a bigger gap, but also to get me to buy the bigger one it should also be at the same price range...but I doubt that he would do that. A lot of people think it's waaay too much money to pay for such a lever, what would it look like if it was even more expensive?

"jpender" that Tanita KP-400M really is 0.5 inch and that should be 12.7 mm, which is closer to that desired thickness, great find, I might buy that one (if I find a place in Europe where to buy from). I'll have to see if I'd be able to use the cups that I am using, because, honestly, cups are more important to me for enjoyment than the scale. One shouldn't determine another. But great find...Thanks!

"ziptie...to pay $270 for a Acaia Pyxis, 13 mm is also not bad, but man, I am not giving that money because there are similar products on the market already, if it's the one from my description below, and if it's that unique on the market, then I might consider getting one for $270: 2 mm thin...glass etc...but, not me and Pyxis...hm, btw I just remembered now, when I was a kid 8-9 years old, there was a small black crazy dog that terrorised us, kids in the neighbourhood and its name was...can you imagine PYXIE! I'm definitely not buying a scale with that name, and it's even black...big no-no for me...lol

I stoped thinking about why Strietman didn't make it differently, but that raised a bigger question, why scales can't be thinner? Regardless of Strietman, why scale technology can't deliver those demands? If you think wider, and look back 30 years where technology was. Chips and physical size of them and amount of data that could be stored, how far we came, and they tend to get smaller and smaller, but more powerful. TV/LED screens are thinner and thinner, nano technology, and the list goes on and on...but scales can't be thinner than 13 mm. That's sad. Humans sent a robot vehicle to Mars, communicate with it, but can't make, are not capable of developing technology (digital) for making thin scales. You don't even need batteries actually, that was just an observation about two kinds of batteries, it can be charged by solar.

I demand a scale, a sheet scale, thin 2 mm, made of glass with sensors (digital)...hm

OK, maybe someone from the industry and development of new technologies will read this and ask the same question and start developing that damn thin "futuristic" scale, lol.

Cheers!

P.S. I think I also read that someone on HB mentioned something about what you wrote "making some sort of a thin extension to espresso scale", that's why I also mentioned HB enthusiasts to come out and speak, lol
What sensor sheet that might be? And it should work like that Steinberg scale I mentioned and left the link for. A thin sheet with sensors (digital, not mechanic), connected with display via cable. Show us, man, come out and speak about it more, haha.

jpender

#14: Post by jpender »

Espressoman007 wrote:...that Tanita KP-400M really is 0.5 inch and that should be 12.7 mm, which is closer to that desired thickness...
They specified the thickness to the nearest 0.1 inch so that would imply something between 0.05 and 0.15 inches -- assuming the specification is accurate in the first place. It's $76 delivered on amazon. Might not be a bad idea to ask them about the dimensions and what the return policy is.

Espressoman007 wrote:P.S. I think I also read that someone on HB mentioned something about what you wrote "making some sort of a thin extension to espresso scale", that's why I also mentioned HB enthusiasts to come out and speak, lol
What sensor sheet that might be? And it should work like that Steinberg scale I mentioned and left the link for. A thin sheet with sensors (digital, not mechanic), connected with display via cable. Show us, man, come out and speak about it more, haha.
I was hoping someone else would remember where that was posted. All I can think is that someone securely affixed a sheet of stiff material to the top of a scale. It's not clear to me that the scale would read accurately torqued like that but maybe it's good enough. Or they did something else.

baldheadracing
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#15: Post by baldheadracing »

I have an 11mm thick scale, but it isn't waterproof. It's also too big (length x width) for most(?) home machines. In addition, each foot is a load cell, which means that it might not work with a drip tray's grate.

https://ozeri.com/kitchen-scales/Ozeri- ... B002UEZ2FC

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Jeff
Team HB

#16: Post by Jeff »


Espressoman007 (original poster)

#17: Post by Espressoman007 (original poster) »

jpender wrote:I was hoping someone else would remember where that was posted. All I can think is that someone securely affixed a sheet of stiff material to the top of a scale. It's not clear to me that the scale would read accurately torqued like that but maybe it's good enough. Or they did something else.
I think that I found that comment about the DIY scale. It was in the CT2 thread, actually, the last comment in thread.

I was looking for sensors and this is what I have found:
https://www.loadstarsensors.com/product ... #miniature

Some of these are for a small weight capacity, I assume that they could be precise at least within 1 g and that would be good. I don't know its working principle, I can only guess (USB connectable, perhaps a display, tablet). I don't have a clue how much could one of these cost, the seller/manufacturer should be contacted for details.

I also found:
https://www.amazon.com/Micro-Size-Tensi ... =8-33&th=1
But also don't have a clue how to connect it and whether it's OK for what we need it for.

This one too:
https://www.amazon.com/DYMH-103-Tension ... 414&sr=8-4

Also:
https://sensor-con.en.alibaba.com/produ ... 59f0XYDcwF
Here is an example of how it works, I don't know its accuracy, but if it's for 500 g then it should be inside 1 g range, which would be enough for what we need it for.

There are some projects done on YouTube with these sensors and Arduino.

I was speaking in general about scales, but actually, it's Strietman that needs it the most. And this project should work great. Besides aesthetics (looks beautiful), I didn't find drip tray of CT2 that useful for collecting water. I use it only as a platform/base for keeping a cup on it. I use a small bowl under for collecting water when "washing" shower screen, or collecting excess coffee.
Basically, if you remove drip tray and plate, you can install this sensor inside the hole, at the bottom, and pull through the display and place it on the top, or behind or wherever it suits you.

This might finally be the best solution for a scale and taller cups for CT2. Looks like it might be fun DIY project.
Any thoughts?

Cheers!

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jpender

#18: Post by jpender »

Those are load cells, not scales. To turn a load cell into a scale requires a weighing platform, mounting hardware, electronics, a display, buttons, a microprocessor, and firmware. It's something that a lot of hobbyists could do but it's not a beginner project.
Espressoman007 wrote:If I knew anything about electronics, I would be the first to make it, lol.

The "plank" that Jeff linked to above is what I was remembering. That guy held down a stiff extension with a weight and some sticky tape. I'm a little surprised it remained as accurate as he claimed. You might also be able to attach an extension with bolts, depending on how willing you would be to take your scale apart. But it seems a little awkward.


If you're willing to really go outside the box you could build shelves for your espresso machine and scale. Put the scale on the lower shelf and the machine on the upper one. Then place a hollow rectangular extension on the scale that wraps around to the base of your machine. I did something analogous one time to weigh items below my scale (in order to determine density by weighing something immersed in water). It could work but... it's a crazy idea.

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Jeff
Team HB

#19: Post by Jeff »

If you wanted to pursue the project, I'd go with two of the affordable beam-style load cells and a thin bridge between them. The load cells on either end of the bridge would sit in the counter. That way you can avoid getting into $200-$2,000 load cells. You could probably cannibalize two $15 scales, or look at a vendor like SparkFun. I think they (or someone similar) sell them with a newer break-out board that has an I2C interface. Even without tearing into the scales, you could take the total of the two displays.

Espressoman007 (original poster)

#20: Post by Espressoman007 (original poster) »

Hm, there are several clips on YouTube where people use those load cells in projects, and it doesn't look complicated. There are projects about making DIY scales, and they need materials that you've mentioned, but also a few were far more simple. Just with reading weight, nothing else.

It also crossed my mind to tear apart a cheap scale haha. But I am not familiar with what I will find inside, so I am not sure if it's worth it, but...there are scales for $10...I might buy one and try, like kids project...I'm very handy with fingers and making stuff, but electronics is not my field. I'm probably going to ruin it all more than make something good out of it hahaha...but

OK, I really don't need that scale for CT2, but after everything I've read I'm hooked on it just for fun.

If anyone else wants to jump in, you're more than welcome.

P.S. This is the comment I was referring to, and I don't know if this person knows how to make it, or just has an idea, just like me, without any experience.
wojtowip wrote:I'm also using the Lunar scale with the CT2. I can fit cups up to a bit over 2in tall under the machine with the scale no problem. Works great and helps get a consistent weight.

I do find that I'm stopping at about the same point during the pull each time though. Haven't considered the tick idea, but maybe I could get in the ball park there.

Actually now I'm wondering if I could get a sensor under the cup tray and get a display out on the side that would show weight. That might actually be a clean solution if I can get a sensor and remote display setup.