More flame into the bottomless vs. spouted portafilter debate

Want to talk espresso but not sure which forum? If so, this is the right one.
guydebord
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#1: Post by guydebord »

Just saw this new video from The Real Sprometheus:
I think some points are BS, like the thermal mass thing... I just leave it here :twisted:
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

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Moka 1 Cup
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#2: Post by Moka 1 Cup »

I am probably the last one that can bring added value to this subject.
The only thing I can say, as a beginner, is that since I received my bottomless portafilter, the spouted one has been sitting in a drawer.
I use only the bottomless.
- I like the fact that I don't have a big splash of water into my cup when I stop the extraction, which in my case may be even more problematic since I pull only single 16g-25gr espressos.
- It is cleaner, I don't even have to remove the basket to clean the bottom of the portafilter because there is no bottom.
- I like the fact that if I want to give a quick rinse under the faucet to portafilter and basket , it takes a moment to bring everything back to temperature.
- I don't need to buy a single spouted portafilter, because the bottomless portafilter is already for a single cup.
- I may be beginner-lucky or maybe the 7gr La Marzocco basket is very forgiving, but I always get very clean shots.
Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness.

biketo
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#3: Post by biketo »

Disagree. I can and do get perfect, splatter free extractions with my bottomless. Easy to clean, as well. Home user, though.

nuketopia
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Joined: 8 years ago

#4: Post by nuketopia »

The naked portafilter is great for diagnosing process. It does tend to make more mess. The spouted unit is neater in that respect, but it needs to be heated thoroughly.

Mostly, I leave the bottomless one on all the time. Just used to it. No reason, no debate.

Not everything is a "debate". People need to try some decaff.
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Balthazar_B
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#5: Post by Balthazar_B replying to nuketopia »

About the only time these days I use a "normal" naked portafilter is when I pick up a new coffee during dial-in. Or when something weird is happening and diagnostics are called for. But the one I use most often is naked, my totally demented 7g single PF. When I do doubles, they're transformed into two singles via a double-spouted PF.
- John

LMWDP # 577

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scotchian
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#6: Post by scotchian »

The bottomless is INVALUABLE as a learning tool. I would still suck at espresso without it. Theoretically if you were a robot, (and coffee type and age was always the same) and you perfected the bottomless shot... you could just keep your routine the same and switch back to spouted forever. Since you're not a robot, (presumably,) it's good to have that constant visual feedback. I'm not convinced the spouted can deliver better flavor but it is generally less messy. However since my original spouted porta has no spring clip it's a huge pain in the ass to empty and clean. The Naked portafilter I have from Gábor in Hungary is infinitely more convenient because of its strong spring clip basket retainer and the fact that I can rinse both sides after a shot with basket still installed. Once you have your beans and routine dialed in the mess of a bottomless disappears and is a non issue. If you're spraying the machine like a cat in heat you haven't figured it out yet. Keep trying.
COFFEE>WHISKEY>REPEAT

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bluesman
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#7: Post by bluesman »

guydebord wrote:I think some points are BS, like the thermal mass thing
I agree! Heat loss from the cone doesn't seem to me to be a significant factor in my espresso. The crema from my naked PFs is also quite fine even though I do not raise the cup to minimize drop distance. And a peek inside the spout after a week of shots suggests that soaking it in backflush cleaner and washing it out every day does not keep it or the inside bottom of the PF completely clean.

What I hear between the words is that a spouted PF lets you get away with less than excellent methodology and technique, which is sorta true. If you have a channeling issue and your naked PF is spraying coffee all over the place, a spouted PF will contain it and redirect it to the cup. Is this the way to make the best espresso you can make? No, it is not. Perhaps Sprometheus could spend his time more productively by working on his approach to grind, dose and distribution instead of making videos like this one.

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Peppersass
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#8: Post by Peppersass »

My two-cents after going back and forth:

I find it's best to use the bottomless whenever dialing in a new coffee, or even a new batch of a previously dialed-in coffee. For example, my grooming tool might need depth adjustment if the grounds of one coffee aren't as fluffy as the last coffee, or maybe a light tamp is in order.

I find that once I have a good pour, there's rarely if ever any difference in the quality of the pour as revealed by the bottomless. That's because my equipment is very consistent and the distribution techniques I've developed over the last 10 years appear to be consistent as well. So I can switch to the spouted, but often I don't bother. While I like the fact that the spouted keeps me from getting OCD about the look of the pour (which isn't always an indicator of taste in the cup), and prefer not looking at the pour with a mirror, it's a lot faster and easier to clean the bottomless and I see no reason not to continue with it.