MAP and MSRP practices of online resellers - Page 5

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Bluecold
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#41: Post by Bluecold »

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124087840110661643.html
Rejoice americans!
The result probably is that us europeans now will get double triple raped.
Anyway, for everyone who thinks coffee equipment prices are bad, check Grado headphone prices in Europe, while keeping in mind Grado forbids their american retailers to ship to Europe. They don't want to price competitively in Europe because they feel they can't compete against Sennheiser. They feel that way because they don't sell a lot in Europe.
Ahwell, the Allessandro's are also a good option.

Edited because i have no idea why sentence nr.3 got posted again at the end of the post.
LMWDP #232
"Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death I Shall Fear No Evil For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing."

naked_barista
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#42: Post by naked_barista »

Rejoice americans!
I'm sorry you think we would celebrate your misfortune.

The result probably is that us europeans now will get triple raped.
I didn't get that from the article at all. Could you elaborate?
larry at laurelnet dot com

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Bluecold
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#43: Post by Bluecold »

Prices in Europe tend to be higher because the mfg's charge the same in euro's as in dollars and over that already higher price, we pay more tax. It is so bad that even our prince bought an iPhone in NY, and not here in Holland. Since the manufacturers will make less profit because they can't exploit the MAP thing in America, they will probably charge more here in Europe to compensate.
LMWDP #232
"Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death I Shall Fear No Evil For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing."

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shadowfax
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#44: Post by shadowfax »

iPhone seems like a silly example; It must be purchased with a contract, or on pay-as-you-go, and the price is largely determined by local telecom companies who suffer from varying degrees of abject evil. I'm not trying to absolve Apple of the sin of evil multinational corporationism, but certainly the price of that phone is all over the map... all over the map.

I'm not saying there aren't other examples, but I would certainly question your implication of the US killing MAP/MSRP as a cause for manufacturers hiking prices in Europe. I'd think that the international money market would be a bigger foe for you guys than MAP/MSRP.
Nicholas Lundgaard

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HB
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#45: Post by HB »

Bluecold wrote:Prices in Europe tend to be higher because the mfg's charge the same in euro's as in dollars and over that already higher price, we pay more tax.
At the risk of dragging this topic astray, I found that despite our lower taxes and generally higher wages, the quality of life in Europe during my four-year sejour was distinctly better than the US. The eight (!!!) weeks of vacation, subsidized transportation costs, and focus on quality of life rather than quantity of material possessions left lasting impressions on my world view. According to the OECD, the number of hours worked in 2007 per employee in the Netherlands was 1392 versus 1794 in the US.
Bluecold wrote:Since the manufacturers will make less profit because they can't exploit the MAP thing in America, they will probably charge more here in Europe to compensate.
I would gladly pay MSRP and your higher taxes if it meant 20% less hours of work per year, not to mention other financial advantages like [near] universal health care, state-sponsored tuition, retirement benefits, etc.
Dan Kehn

Ken Fox
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#46: Post by Ken Fox »

HB wrote:I would gladly pay MSRP and your higher taxes if it meant 20% less hours of work per year, not to mention other financial advantages like [near] universal health care, state-sponsored tuition, retirement benefits, etc.
I spend 2 months a year in France (in fact I'm in Lyon, France, as I type this) and would not trade this time for anything, but . . . .

I'm nowhere near as impressed with the "quality of life" here for average people as Dan seems to be. I think it depends entirely on specifically where you live in Europe and what you do (including what your work actually entails and how much money you get paid for doing it). There are a whole host of variables here, and for a large percentage of French people their quality of life is (in my view) WORSE than that of the average American.

Over about 4 years, I've had occasion to work, learning French, with about 8 young French people who were working in my town in Idaho. Only one of these people was happy to go home at the end of his or her work stint. One of them, my most recent French teacher, went so far as to propose to an American woman, in part for the promise of a green card to work in the USA. I think he will end up living in the USA for most of the rest of his life. My other most recent teacher, with whom I'm working through the month of May, has been fighting a losing battle to try to get his visa extended to allow him to continue working in Idaho. To say that he and his wife are unenthusiastic about rejoining the French workforce would be an understatement.

ken
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Alfred E. Neuman, 1955

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HB
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#47: Post by HB »

Ken Fox wrote:I think it depends entirely on specifically where you live in Europe and what you do (including what your work actually entails and how much money you get paid for doing it).
Indeed, I can only speak from experience with my employers, IBM USA and IBM France. My French colleagues complained about how poorly they were compensated relative to those in the US. Only after living there for a few years and becoming eligible for the same benefits they enjoyed did my viewpoint change. They're spoiled and few of them realized it.

Working conditions aside, the quality of life difference I refer to isn't entirely based in economics. For example, American conversation is dominated by work because an American's identity is tightly coupled with their profession, hence the perfunctory question, "What do you do for a living?" When I worked at IBM France, talking about work outside of work was viewed not only as gauche, but sad (as in "Do you have nothing else worth talking about? Is your life really that boring?"). The discussions I enjoyed in France were far more lively than those in the US, but that's a topic better suited for one of my Overextracted threads. :wink:
Dan Kehn

Ken Fox
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#48: Post by Ken Fox replying to HB »

I just got off my Paris to San Francisco flight. While waiting to get off the plane after arrival at the gate, a flight steward who had struck up a long conversation with me and a woman passenger on the flight (whom I had met before by coincidence, the owner of a French winery, who is an American by birth but has lived in France for 40 years) went into a near tirade about how unpleasant life is in the Paris area. He said that everyone does whatever they want, they throw trash everywhere and make noise without reference to how it impacts others. He said he can only tolerate be outside or on public transport with headphones on to block the noise made by others. He said that only the rich people in French cities enjoy tranquility, that the quality of life for the rest of them (including himself) was poor.

He said he was coming back to San Francisco on another flight in a few days and was looking forward to spending 2 weeks of vacation in the San Francisco area where he could relax and be free of the hassles of everyday life where he lives in the Paris metro area.

My earlier conversation with this flight steward was just some chit chatting in France and had nothing to do with any of this. His near-tirade reaction came when I asked him what he was going to do in San Francisco during his layover from this flight . . . . .all of these conversations were in French.

Obviously, peoples' experiences differ and I would not want to generalize other than to say that most of the French people I know personally who are middle income and who have experienced living and working in the USA, seem to prefer the way of life in the USA to what they have experienced in France.

ken
What, me worry?

Alfred E. Neuman, 1955

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iginfect
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#49: Post by iginfect »

You cannot take Paris as representative of France just as you cannot take NYC as representative of the US. I spent 9 years in France "en provence" and Parisians were looked down upon. As a native "rotten appler" I understood that and didn't want to live in Paris as much as I don't want to live in my home town now.

Marvin

Ken Fox
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#50: Post by Ken Fox replying to iginfect »

I don't like big cities either, however I think you could say much the same things (above) that were said about the Paris metro area, about Lyon, Marseilles, and at least several other large cities in France. If we are going to talk about the life in the countryside, then you have to compare apples to apples.

People living in the French countryside that I have personally met, who enjoy a reasonably good standard of living, tend to be self employed people running their own businesses. Those that I have met and know who meet this description tell me that they live well because they work 24/24, e.g. 24 hours a day. Examples would include people owning and running small wineries, owning small hotels, and the like. These people don't enjoy extensive vacations in the same way that salaried people do, unless they (the middle class owners) take the time off themselves, which is then going to be reflected in their bottom lines. They avoid hiring very many employees to reduce their exposure to French work rules which make profitability difficult.

Those people I have met (and there are very many of them) living in the French countryside who are salaried employees in the types of businesses one finds there (hotels, restaurants, agriculture, wine production, etc.) are no where nearly as well compensated as Dan was in his work. They very seldom go out to restaurants, and they have to try hard to get their small budgets to stretch to provide a reasonably quality of life for themselves and their families.

I had occasion to visit several wineries this last month, by appointment, for tasting visits. I only got these appointments because I'm a good customer of their American importers. In most every instance getting the appointment was difficult because the vigneron/owner had to take time away from his dusk to dawn fieldwork and other chores to see me. One of them told me he is working all day, every day this time of year (includes the weekends).

Another specific example is a small hotel I stayed in for 2 days in Uzes, near the famous Pont du Gard. The owner works in the hotel all day long as receptionist, then reappears for lunch and dinner in the dining room as a waiter, with only one other serving person (plus a chef) working for him. We had many conversations during my visit. He told me he was successful only because he works 24/7.

My personal opinion of what Dan wrote about this mythical French lifestyle is that it is somewhat dated, and that things have deteriorated even in the last few years since Dan left. It is also my impression that Dan had a better job and was better compensated than the great majority of French workers. He probably associated mostly with people in more or less the same level of employment and compensation. The kind of job Dan has is not something you can have living in Provence. You will have to live in Paris or some other big French city to experience what Dan experienced. And, the huge majority of the other French workers out there who enjoy perks such as Dan describes (many weeks of vacation; health insurance, etc.) are probably somewhat less enthusiastic about their quality of life as Dan seems to have been satisfied with his.

ken
What, me worry?

Alfred E. Neuman, 1955