bluesman wrote: I'm not so sure about that, Jake. The sloping ridges on tools like the one I bought (shown below) shift the ground coffee around as they compress it during rotation. Particulate matter behaves like a fluid in many ways, including distribution under pressure - so the dose will redistribute & fill areas of lower resistance (i.e. voids and poorly packed foci) to capacity as those "vanes" push it around and in.

I completely agree with everything you say here in principle, and would even have argued the same until two days ago...

The issue is that when I first made my ugly wedge grooming tool (sloped to move the coffee around and fill in the low density spots) my puck surface looked amazing, but my pours were 100% sideways. I corrected most of this defect by dumping the puck and re-grooming. This proved to me that there was something about how the grounds come out of my Super Jolly into the doser that impacts how the grounds fall out of my doser and into the basket. I discovered the dump and re-groom technique quite by accident when I attempted to drop a few stray grinds off the top of my groomed puck back into the doser and the puck fell out of the basket . This turned out to be a good thing because when I dosed again and groomed and tamped, I had the most even pour I had yet achieved. Turns out the results were predictable, and I've been "double-dosing" ever since with good success. Failure to do this results in flow only on the left side of the basket, pretty much without fail.

Enter two days ago, when I finally cracked and grabbed Heidi's canning funnel and a bamboo skewer and -for the first time- attempted WDT.

Holy crap.

WDT is a distribution technique. Groomers groom.

If you have a grinder that gives you permissible grounds distribution, I have no doubt that the groomer will suffice. I spent the last 6 months making up excuses for why I didn't need to do WET. I'm a convert now and will not likely ever go back to my old stubborn ways. Turns out it's quicker than dumping and dosing again, too .

JR_Germantown wrote:But as the vibration continued, fractures appeared (now like a solid).

I've noticed the same phenomenon with downwards taps to settle the grinds. Side to side taps work great for me but tapping downwards leads to cracked pucks for me...

- Jake

Jake_G wrote:I've noticed the same phenominum with downwards taps to settle the grinds. Side to side taps work great for me but tapping downwards leads to cracked pucks for me...

Actually, the phenomenon that I was observing was that once the particles have settled, they behave more like an aggregate solid than a fluid. From that point on, any vibration (shock) in any direction is generally detrimental.

Jack

Thanks for the typo alert! I'm usually quicker than that...
Yup. Same thing. Downwards taps themselves were fine, but any side to side motion after that broke up the condensed puck. I think we're referring to the same thing in practice...

Jake_G wrote: Enter two days ago, when I finally cracked and grabbed Heidi's canning funnel and a bamboo skewer and -for the first time- attempted WDT.

Holy crap.

- Jake

This^^^ is exactly why I WDT (and RDT) every shot, all the time, not matter what. And for only 2-6 shots a day, it's not even worth my time to NOT do those things. That, plus the lengthy list of HB luminaries who also do it.

Not to start another holy war over WDT tools, but:
https://www.carolina.com/images/product ... 627201.jpg

I paid $5 for a pack of ten from Amazon.

-Peter

lol but why not a toothpick?

Jake_G wrote:Thanks for the typo alert! I'm usually quicker than that...
Yup. Same thing. Downwards taps themselves were fine, but any side to side motion after that broke up the condensed puck. I think we're referring to the same thing in practice...

My point was not about the direction of the taps/vibration/shock -- it was about the amount (or duration of the tapping process). That is, ground coffee behaves something like a fluid, until it has settled.

But in my observation, once they settle, any shock (vertical, horizontal, random, etc.) is more likely to create fissures than to help.

Jack

OK31 wrote:Well noted on the easy tamp and the grooming tool. Would a vst basket make any sense for something other than standardizing the dose? I kind of get what it's for but then again not sure. Only considering this to get a second basket so I can use the stock bdb in the stock spouted pf and the vst or another basket in the bottomless. More options and if serving several guests can do two singles on spouted. So let's add basket type/size to the mix and suggest order in which to get these accessories.

My 2 cents here is to have the same basket type in both PFs, as grind/dose you dial in for one basket may well not work with the other. I'm currently using a single VST basket because that is what Denis uses to test the monoliths. Soon, though, I'll switch back to the stock BDB baskets. I did a quick test and the grind/dose I'm using in the VST chokes in the stock basket.

But I'll dial in the stock baskets, and can swap interchangeably between PFs (which will be handy for guests).

So you feel the stick basket is better or ?

Actually, I don't think it really matters. VST baskets are fine, but they tend to require a finer grind. And they are pricey-ish. I actually never liked them with my SGP, anyway, got a whole set because they are "precision competition standard" baskets, thinking that would solve my problems. They didn't, as I had LOTS of other problems, so finicky baskets didn't help.

The stock BDB baskets are very good, slightly different, but I am happy that VST brands their baskets, because at a glance they look very similar. If you are all dialed in on your current basket, then switch to a VST, it will gush and spray, as you have to change grind size at a minimum. I haven't been able to tell any difference in taste. So if you plan to mix baskets, plan to have mixed grind & possibly dose settings.

If you do get a VST, their 18G basket is roughly the same size as the stock BDB baskets, so your dose would be closer between them.

Ok en bdb baskets it is. Will just probably invest in another one. What do you find the ideal cross bean dose for the stock basket? I'm having a hard time with that. A higher dose causes a drier puck but not sure flavor. Anyway so my takeaway is continue wdt get levtamp and if still not happy invest in a bt wedge or ocd or kafatek distro tool? Sounds about accurate from what I compiled from the responses of everyone?