I don't think it's going to be remotely fruitful to wade in and turn this into an argument, but I do think it's worth saying that the idea that H-B is a trustworthy source that can't be gainsaid is a pretty obvious fallacy. While Hoff and Lance aren't where I'm getting my espresso knowledge from, I don't believe for a second that they're incapable of sharing useful information. I disagree with some of their specifics for my individual taste, but still can acknowledge their specific expertise.

I personally don't like that influencers become disseminators of knowledge in any community since there are some perverse financial incentives at play, so I kind of recognize where the earlier rant is coming from. Where I depart from it is the idea that these people can't be useful but the average collective wisdom of H-B can be. That attitude is so unpalatable to me that it prevents me from spending more time here, sadly.

In the spirit of the rant, I can just about guarantee that I could disagree with that poster and the collective wisdom here at the same rate or higher. If I were a fool I'd take that to mean that my opinions are factual and that the people on the other side of the conversation are wrong. That's not true, we just simply have different expectations, methodologies, and preferences.

skink91 wrote:Where are the specific examples of their bad and wrong advice you mention? One would think your post would be full of specifics based on the length...

Maybe because it's the weekend, but I could not motivate myself to read a nearly 2000 word rant. I'm with you, I would rather read specifics than a lengthy opinion piece.

shotwell wrote:While Hoff and Lance aren't where I'm getting my espresso knowledge from, I don't believe for a second that they're incapable of sharing useful information. I disagree with some of their specifics for my individual taste, but still can acknowledge their specific expertise...

That's pretty much my take on anything coffee-related I read online. Most new ideas/coffees/processes I've tried have originated from an online discussion. Will I agree with all of them? Unlikely, but I appreciate those who challenge assumptions. As for influencers and "experts", I appreciate their contributions to online discussions, but unless I can demonstrate their claim myself (or if there's a very large consensus), I treat it as an interesting observation and far from the final word on a given subject.

skink91 wrote:Not even sure why the previous post evoked such a strong reaction from me to be honest, other than it somehow felt both disingenuous and dismissive.

I would argue that's fundamentally true for most rants, and often their purpose. And with that, I suggest that contributors to this thread review the Guidelines for productive online discussion, notably "Encourage positive, shared discourse."

This thread is closed for awhile.