Have we reached the end of innovation? - Page 7

Want to talk espresso but not sure which forum? If so, this is the right one.
Vad

#61: Post by Vad »

Is it this one? http://www.eventseye.com/fairs/f-sic-8624-1.html

EDIT: oh, I see you have already posted the leads. Thank you for the confirmation.

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Psyd

#62: Post by Psyd »

Nick wrote:a higher-up at a well-known espresso machine manufacturer who... ...expressed a bit of befuddlement at the lack of interest from the barista community... despite the fact that "they've been asking for this for years!"

I think that I said:
The innovation that this market is ready for is a home machine that can perform with the specs that a Synesso, or a GB-5, or a (fill in the name of your favorite high-tech machine) at the cost of a coffee-maker, or nearabouts.
I'm out shopping for a one or two group machine to replace the absolute monster that is my Astoria Argenta RG. It's like going to get groceries in a Humvee (outfitted as they are in Fallujah, not those cut lil' yup-mobile wannabe Soccer-Mom urban assault vehicles). I would absolutely love an FB-80, or Linea, or perhaps a Cyncra or a Hydra, but I'm thinking of topping out my spending at $2500. Basically, I want to sell my perfectly good two-group pro kit and get something that is kitchen friendly, but can also be trusted to stay at home by itself without piddling on the carpet or setting the place on fire.
If folk want to innovate toward the Home Barista (and I know, you were taking about his reaction to the pro communities re-action, but I'm runnin' widdit) they need to aim toward the same target that LM was looking to hit with the GS-3. I do have to say, that with a $5 - $7K, the GS-3 was a miserable failure in it's initial goal. I don't see the international market supporting another shot at that target soon, but if someone makes the Model T of pro-quality home machines, they're gonna end up with an empire similar to Ford's, scale-wise. Think about it. There isn't a single person in this country over the age of two that doesn't know about specialty coffees. There's a market, and LM just barely missed tapping it.
Espresso Sniper
One Shot, One Kill

LMWDP #175

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HB
Admin

#63: Post by HB »

Psyd wrote:There isn't a single person in this country over the age of two that doesn't know about specialty coffees. There's a market, and LM just barely missed tapping it.
:lol: Most people can't even spell espresso correctly, let alone recognize it's relationship to specialty coffee.

While I hold the home espresso market near and dear, it's a tiny, tiny niche market. The broader market of "coffee aficionados" who could appreciate the tenets of specialty coffee (e.g., freshness, proper temperature, brew ratios, etc.) is still tiny compared to the "coffee is bitter and needs cream/sugar to be palatable" majority. The good news is even the chains are recognizing that drinkable coffee can translate into customer loyalty, but the so-called best are far below what most of this site's visitors would consider unacceptable.

For a reality check, see articles like Coffee Talk: Which chain brews the best cup? Starbucks, McDonald's, or Dunkin'? Seems like every week, an article similar to it comes out in a major publication. The conclusion could have been written by many who frequent this site:
It's worth noting that all three chains scored less than half of all possible points (and that the price difference between a cappuccino from McDonald's and one from some of Manhattan's most rarefied espresso shops is less than $1). If convenience trumps all other considerations, though-and in matters of coffee, it often does-consider this: A giant muffin and some sweetener can hide all sorts of crimes.
Dan Kehn

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Psyd

#64: Post by Psyd »

HB wrote: Most people can't even spell espresso correctly, let alone recognize it's relationship to specialty coffee
I guess I shoulda suggested that they were aware that specialty coffee was out there, not that they could recognize 'real' specialty coffee from something offered by a clown. What I meant to say was that they know that there is something out there that isn't drip, and they all think that the reason that they have to go to a clown or a mermaid or a different clown is that they aren't skilled enough or can afford the right machinery to make these at home. We know different.
Yes, probably at least 80% of them will still go to their clowns and sirens for the convenience. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the laziness of the American Public. Shoot, even if you got two percent of their customers, you'd be set for the rest of your life.
There weren't too many people suggesting that automobiles would catch on for everyman. Indoor plumbing was laughed at, televisions were scoffed, a computer in every household was teased, and dishwashers were doomed as frivolous and wasteful (they are, but they still sell).
The know that there is something out there that isn't brewed coffee, but that they like it. I say that innovation should lean towards giving it to them at home, at and affordable price, with near GS-3 performance. Eschew the plasti-crap™ machines of the past for 'real' kit.
Espresso Sniper
One Shot, One Kill

LMWDP #175

Nick

#65: Post by Nick »

Psyd wrote:I would absolutely love an FB-80, or Linea, or perhaps a Cyncra or a Hydra, but I'm thinking of topping out my spending at $2500. Basically, I want to sell my perfectly good two-group pro kit and get something that is kitchen friendly, but can also be trusted to stay at home by itself without piddling on the carpet or setting the place on fire.
Don't mean to sound so Mark-Prince-ish ( :wink: ), but it is my understanding that you may be close to getting your wish... I'm just not allowed to talk about it! :D

I think you'll hear about it fairly soon (a couple months?). Something brand new. I believe it's new enough that it doesn't have a name yet!
Nick
wreckingballcoffee.com
nickcho.com

Vad

#66: Post by Vad »

Nick wrote: (...) it is my understanding that you may be close to getting your wish... I'm just not allowed to talk about it! :D (...) I think you'll hear about it fairly soon (a couple months?).
Will it be seen on SIC in Fiera Milano in October?. :)

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Marshall

#67: Post by Marshall »

Psyd wrote:There isn't a single person in this country over the age of two that doesn't know about specialty coffees. There's a market, and LM just barely missed tapping it.
HB wrote:Most people can't even spell espresso correctly, let alone recognize it's relationship to specialty coffee. While I hold the home espresso market near and dear, it's a tiny, tiny niche market.
I'm with Psyd. Specialty coffee awareness keeps growing, even if some of it comes from McD commercials. As for the high-end home niche, I agree that LM would have owned it, if they'd been able to control U.S. pricing and worked a little harder on QC. They still might, although interesting competitors are on the horizon.

As for espresso and specialty coffee being a niche market, it is so only if you define it by the hand-made, perfection-striving measures of this Board. In the real world, espresso is huge, even in the U.S., where the recession is driving consumers to brew it at home. Yes, they are pod machines, super-autos and cheap non-auto machines, but they are espresso makers.

From some of these machine buyers will come a larger audience for coffee education and, especially as the economy recovers, a market for top-end equipment. There is a major news piece every week about some roaster or coffee bar's consumer cupping or brewing class. I'm optimistic. After all, like many of you, I started with a "steam toy" and a blade grinder.
Marshall
Los Angeles

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Psyd

#68: Post by Psyd »

Nick wrote:Don't mean to sound so Mark-Prince-ish ( :wink: ), but it is my understanding that you may be close to getting your wish... I'm just not allowed to talk about it! :D
Who is? Get 'im on the phone!
<hand over mouthpiece>
send in the brute squad...
</hand over mouthpiece>

So, I'm no Nostradamus, but I'm willing to bet that the moment that I actually pay for my new machine, something that will kick it's butt for about half the price, and six inches shorter, narrower, and shallower will be offered. It'll come in colors, too...
Espresso Sniper
One Shot, One Kill

LMWDP #175

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JimWright

#69: Post by JimWright »

Nick wrote:Don't mean to sound so Mark-Prince-ish ( :wink: ), but it is my understanding that you may be close to getting your wish... I'm just not allowed to talk about it! :D

I think you'll hear about it fairly soon (a couple months?). Something brand new. I believe it's new enough that it doesn't have a name yet!
And will it still require more "barista dexterity" than "a nine month old"? Because if so, it likely won't matter in the scheme of things IMHO, as most people will never invest the effort to develop passable skill at this, at least here in the U.S. As you say, presumably by experience with your own customers, even among those who "talk the talk," many "can't dose or pull a decent shot to save their life." Most of those same people wouldn't be helped by having a Cyncra, at $8500 or $500. Of course, the folks here will appreciate high end features coming down in price for home consumption, but we are a small market indeed. I still try the product of pod and other home machines at various venues but am invariably disappointed to say the least - a $500 superauto that will make a quality espresso from good, fresh beans, now that would be groundshaking.

cruzmisl

#70: Post by cruzmisl »

Most people can't even spell espresso correctly
I love ex.presso :lol: