If you can afford to spend $5-10.000 on a brand new machine you can't really deny that your income is above average and those earn more than the majority of the population, or that you at some point had a decent salary (nothing wrong with that)

With a lower income/salary or with the salary I get, there is literally no way one could possible save up for such a machine, with my limited income $2500 is the utmost I can spend if I save up for it.

The only other way people with an average incone can lay their hands on such machine is getting them second hand,

malling wrote:The only other way people with an average incone can lay their hands on such machine is getting them second hand.

and that is getting really hard to do these days. If I could go back in time I most certainly would've kept my Valentina semi and Oly Cremina. To find anything like that on Craigslist these days (or for that matter here on the forums) for a bargain is almost non-existent. For instance I saw an Elektra Sixties for sale around eight years ago, a single group Appia around the same time, and a Cremina last year... and that's about it!

Sadly this hobby of late seems to be mirroring the audiophile community in that OCD-like mania has greatly overtaken the fun factor here. Now all I see are scales sitting under glasses, shot timers, and all sorts of fanatical prep routines, etc. I feel it was very good for myself to step away from the hobby and learn to just "go with it" kind of like in cooking. Believe me I used to be that guy constantly sinking shots and going through a pound of quality Yirgacheffe in a fruitless quest chasing the most picture perfect extractions possible.

^^sorry, kind of got lost in a tangent of sorts there.

Anyways to sum things up: a decade ago the average setup on here was a PID Silvia along with a Rocky or Major grinder. Now Speedsters, Linea Mini's, Londinium's, etc have become the common backdrop. Not hating, just stating.

I don't think what you're implying is close to the norm, in fact I don't think the average machine has changed that much over recent years. What I have noticed is that people with more expensive high end equipment tend to flash their equipment more than before. There has been plenty of gs3 around for years or even machines costing twice that amount in people's homes, it is not something new.

You see this trend of showing off everywhere, even in my country where it was unheard of to show off your wealth. These days luxury cars stand on every street corner, more exclusive restaurants, bars, shops have opened, but we have not seen a boom in wealthy people.

malling wrote:I don't think what you're implying is close to the norm, in fact I don't think the average machine has changed that much over recent years. What I have noticed is that people with more expensive high end equipment tend to flash their equipment more than before. There has been plenty of gs3 around for years or even machines costing twice that amount in people's homes, it is not something new.

Yes these machines have been around since the mid-2000's, but back then we were just stepping over from prosumer (which in itself never really existed until the early 2000's) to serious professional level equipment at home (GS-3, Slayer, Cyncra, Strega, KvDW, etc). What I think happened was the "third wave" of espresso failed on a mass commercial level, and the lust for really ultra high end advanced equipment then fell squarely on the consumer end of things.

I think it all came down to preinfusion myself. Nobody uses it in a commercial setting. In that environment it's all about turning out a lot of drinks in the quickest possible manner. So there really isn't any justification for advanced preinfusion capabilities in an environment where nobody wants to wait for ultra slow and syrupy 45 second extraction pulls. The only need for that seems to be here in the home market.

There are still plenty of deals to be had online and Craigslist etc.

I bought a barely used Linea PB 2-group for $7000 CDN, turned around and drive it straight to a retailer and traded it for a Slayer 1gr + Peak ($14,000 CDN in value). I sold those and pocketed the money.

Then I found a 2gr Slayer for $2000 USD, turned around and straight traded that for a brand new Strada EP 1-group (again - around $15,000 CDN in value).

Don't judge the users by the equipment, because you really never know what got them there ... hard work and careers included.

Hard work/carreer/pure luck dosen't change the fact that those individuals earn more and can therefore afford expensive machines! This was not a debate about how people ended up with that kind of cash. But a point that you'll need a certain income to afford specific machines from new.

The same can be said about those deals, those deals require that you have money or earn more than most.

However I agree that good second hand deals can still be had!

I don't think anyone were flaming those who are privileged to afford such expenses. just pointed out that you'll need a certain income.

Interesting discussion but hopefully one of the mods will move it to a separate thread so we can get back to looking at home espresso set ups again.

John, I agree, quoted you in the first post and have moved those comments here.

Is the absolute highest end of espresso even that expensive?

I know people who call my setup excessive but drive cars that cost over 20 or 30 grand more than mine. I care a little too much about coffee and would struggle to care less about cars. I'd rather make sacrifices in things I don't really care about to take no compromises on things I do.

CwD wrote:Is the absolute highest end of espresso even that expensive?

Yes, I do believe the entry level barrier is about $3,000 usd these days for a serious, one-group double boiler machine running on 110v/15amp. Ten years ago your ticket into the club was $1,000 all day long, available primarily in the form of prosumer HX machines. Same thing with grinders as some of these new K30 variants, etc while extremely sick (and by that I mean awesome) in terms of their capabilities, are nonetheless very expensive example of serious home/semi-commercial equipment.

By the way to me, 110volt/15amp falls under the definition of consumer equipment. In my humble opinion 20 amp and 220v machines do not.. those (especially in 220 configuration) are designed to perform on much more of a commercial level.