Has Espresso Become a Hobby for the Rich? - Page 20

#191: Post by **691175002** » March 29th, 2018, 9:49 am

I find that transitioning through setups of varying quality will teach you a lot about equipment and taste.

#192: Post by **drgary** » March 30th, 2018, 1:12 am

At this point a lively debate began about whether equipment rated for extraction yield confers an advantage worth the cost. This struck me as a more focused discussion than what had occurred until now, and well worth its own thread. The debate opened with this comment by Mitch (CwD).

CwD wrote:On light roasts, personally I can't stand anything much darker than Tim Wendelboe and that definitely contributes. I also think desired strength is important. I'm looking for 12-13% tds at minimum and preferably 16tds%+. It'd be a dream to reliably get well extracted 20%tds+ (tds, not exty) shots. A combination like that requires a very even and soluable grind.

But I don't think the same things don't benefit those who enjoy darker roasts. Just because a poorly extracted Italian blend doesn't quickly become intolerable doesn't mean they don't also benefit from an even soluable grind and a profiling capable machine. There's just more "pretty decent" "good" and "great" between "perfect" and "garbage".

The question is "how tied to expense does that quality have to be"? Realistically, right now, I'd say very tied to expense or compromise, but rapidly decreasing.

That new thread is here:

Does Equipment Rated for High Extraction Yield Present a Wider Sweet Spot for Dialing In?

#193: Post by **AssafL** » March 30th, 2018, 4:53 am

pcrussell50 wrote:Me? I'm drawn to the GS/3 because of the "open source'iness" customizability of it: Strada mod, conical valve, regular pump, gear pump, people who have written custom controllers for the pump like Dick Green, etc... That stuff is fun for me. I wish someone would do an open source controller for the Breville Dual Boiler.
-Peter

If I had a Breville - perhaps I'd buy a Decent (or a Slayer or a Mina - but these cost more) instead of writing my own software. I write my own software because I want the capabilities of a Slayer, of Decent and of a Mina but I love the GS/3 and am not willing to part with it. Writing software enables me to have both - or actually - many machines in one (I get to eat the proverbial cake - many times over).

But it isn't the espresso hobby: it just so happens that my other hobby is electronics (since I was 11 years old, so predated coffee by over 10 years) - so I get a double whammy.

March 30th, 2018, 1:05 pm

RE the Decent... Maybe I'm old school, but I like the idea of stainless boilers, even though I understand that Decent has sufficiently engineered it's thermoblocks to be enough like real boilers that you might not miss them. I definitely have my eye on where Decent is taking the hobby, and I like that they offer a 220v version for home use. *The BDB through a simple mod, has full range, real time response, manual pressure gauge control, (using a large rotary knob as opposed to a paddle). Pump comes on and the excess goes to the drip tray (as I think it does in the conical valve GS/3?)* I don't know that I want to sacrifice this for a Decent or a Mina. I'd sooner get a GS/3 and join the body of knowledgeable users in that community. In fact, that's my most likely trajectory if the time comes when we can no longer find the parts to keep the BDB running. So it remains more of a wish right now to gain access to it's full suite of sensors and actuators (including their patented electronic pump control, which we only have partial control over).

Hopefully the part within the asterisks at least is in keeping with the spirit of this thread.

-Peter

#195: Post by **Prairiedawg** » March 30th, 2018, 8:27 pm

dominico wrote:I have to admit that I have yet to see a "I'm a newbie, here's my Slayer" post like one described at the beginning of this thread, but I will say that we see more home baristas with higher quality equipment now than we did in the past. I think part of this is because more types of coffees are being appreciated as espresso now than the traditional "espresso blends" that we used to see in the past, so people started looking for gear with some more versatility in shot parameters than the old Silvia and Rocky combo. That being said, I think a lot of people with expensive gear now upgraded to it after spending time on more budget friendly setups. I also had a Silvia and Rocky for a while.
As people get into a hobby their willingness to spend more time and money on it increases gradually, it is a progression that doesn't necessarily reflect how they spend their money in other aspects of life.
There are also those who patiently wait for the perfect bargain to come along; my friend (who is not an HB member) has had a $150 Cuisinart espresso maker for years, and has been ready to upgrade for a while, just recently snagged an Elektra Microcasa a Leva and Vario combo for a total of about $700, just over a third of what that equipment would go for new. He had to put a little elbow grease into the Elektra but now it makes fantastic coffee. I spent about a year and a half buying "for parts" machines, repairing and reselling them to eventually pay for the lion's share of my Faema.

There is also the "buy once, cry once" crowd. They aren't necessarily rich either, but aren't interested in the gradual upgrade path (for most people this will cost them more money in the long run), and bank on the stuff they buy holding its resale value in case the hobby doesn't pan out.

Very well put. I'm not rich. I'm thoroughly blue collar. I drive a 2004 Honda and buy store brand groceries. Oh...and I have a Monolith and a Profitec. I'm not bragging, its what you value and where you choose to spend your limited resources. I like most everyone here also started with a Silvia and a Rocky. I made bad coffee a lot more than I made good coffee. I almost gave up the hobby because of that. I chose to stay and get better equipment. I'm the type of person who would rather only buy something once, I don't like regrets. If I make the choice to buy a non disposable item, then buy the best, highest quality one you can AFFORD. Whether its at grinder, a car, or a mattress. That way you have no regrets and in the long run you probably save money anyways ie a 2004 Honda. The only downside is I spend a lot more on coffee now......maybe I didn't think this all the way through enough.

#196: Post by **pcrussell50** » March 30th, 2018, 10:06 pm

Prairiedawg wrote:I chose to stay and get better equipment. I'm the type of person who would rather only buy something once, I don't like regrets. If I make the choice to buy a non disposable item.

Neato. Me too. My espresso machine, you use it, some seals and parts wear out you replace them, you keep going. I bet yours is the same way. Just like my Honda. Probably yours, too. Many people "throw away" their cars when they get tired if fixing them. Even Hondas. Does that make them disposable? Are there any cars that aren't disposable? Say, what is a disposable espresso machine anyway? Does anyone here at HB have one?

-Peter

#197: Post by **drgary** » March 31st, 2018, 1:06 am

Years ago someone found a Faema Lambro in a dumpster. I guess that was as disposable as it gets.

#198: Post by **slipchuck** » March 31st, 2018, 4:08 am

pcrussell50 wrote:Neato. Me too. My espresso machine, you use it, some seals and parts wear out you replace them, you keep going. I bet yours is the same way. Just like my Honda. Probably yours, too. Many people "throw away" their cars when they get tired if fixing them. Even Hondas. Does that make them disposable? Are there any cars that aren't disposable? Say, what is a disposable espresso machine anyway? Does anyone here at HB have one?

-Peter

I would call my Breville infuser a disposable (my Breville Batista express went in the dump as a used Infuser was almost the same cost as the Barista 870xl part)

Randy

#199: Post by **mdmvrockford** » March 31st, 2018, 7:13 am

I do not know who is the moderator of the knockbox forum thread. This may be irrelevant to know as many moderators (TeamHBs) have already posted on this mega-thread. Hereby, I make first motion for adding a poll (if possible) to this existing thread. If not possible then I make first motion to start new knockbox thread with poll "Has Espresso Become a Hobby for the RIch?" And only choices are yes or no. I also would suggest to keep that poll thread closed to comments and just instruct those who want to comment to "please direct all comments to this thread (mega thread 199 posts and counting but I realize this is not even top 10 for home-barista.com

)

#200: Post by **bluesman** » March 31st, 2018, 10:21 am

Prairiedawg wrote: The only downside is I spend a lot more on coffee now......maybe I didn't think this all the way through enough.

You chose the wise path. It's a lot cheaper than booze or psychiatry