OldNuc wrote:You already have the manual Robur burr grinder so in most cases you are set for a grinder. That puts your sweet spot in the $1500-$2000 range.

Excellent.

Although, my question is not really about me, so much as I just think it would be interesting to know what some of our HB elders would pick if they had a limited amount of funds and why. If they had $3k to spend on a machine, what would they buy? If they had $2K, then what would they buy? If there really is a knee-bend relationship between outcomes and spending and if it is in the range that Jim mentioned, then what would they get? So, grasping to keep this on topic, how can you make espresso like a rich guy/gal on a middle class budget?

grind727 wrote:Jim, I would love to know what your $1500-3000 sweet spot picks are. As someone that struggles with my La Pavoni, occasionally producing a great shot followed by lots of mediocre ones, I've been thinking of moving on.

There are lots E61 boxes, both HX and DBs. They are competing so strongly that all of them are better now, in fit, finish and design tweaks, than those from ten years back. For the very low end, the Breville DB is hard to beat, and has shown itself to be fairly reliable too. For the higher end, there's lots of DB E61s

I have a personal preference for lighter bodied, clearer tasting shots, so I like the Brasilia style groups found on the Bezzera BZ07 and BZ10 at the lower end, and any of the commercial levers packaged with a tank and assist pump at the higher end. I've been using the Bezzera Strega for about seven years now, and have no plans to upgrade. Most board members with my taste preference also end up with commercial levers; and when they get really into it, they go with restored 1950s or 60s Contis or Faemas. Finally, some go with the Cremina, which is, in essence, the Pavoni with everything done exactly right, so it's stable and repeatable. But the new ones are beyond this price range, while finding used ones is a no-rules treasure hunt.

I would add to Jim's comment that if someone is thinking of moving on from a La Pavoni, the Elektra Microcasa a Leva is worth considering. My preference with those is to attach a heat break gasket between the group and the boiler, which makes it temperature stable. I think of it as equivalent to a vintage Cremina in build quality if you buy one that's all chrome. The brass and copper or chrome and brass ones are very pretty but have a clearcoat finish that gets chipped over time and tarnish becomes a problem.

After reading and thinking on the original post I have a rather short answer.

No.
Enjoying coffee is not only for the wealthy. You can however spend a fortune in the search for nirvana....

another_jim wrote: I have a personal preference for lighter bodied, clearer tasting shots, so I like the Brasilia style groups found on the Bezzera BZ07 and BZ10 at the lower end, and any of the commercial levers packaged with a tank and assist pump at the higher end.

Thank you, I've been thinking of moving from the BZ07 to a lever. Glad to see that it makes sense.

If affordable temperature stability is your thing...
Watch the reading (as best you can) the reading on his meter.

Of course, this video is a fairly informal Scace run compared to the more formal SCAA methodologies that have been documented every so often on this machine.

-Peter

belegnole wrote:Enjoying coffee is not only for the wealthy. You can however spend a fortune in the search for nirvana.....

...and that's a hobby for the rich

Like any hobby, manufacturers will always develop "higher-end" models to cater to those with large disposable incomes, as profit margins are larger. Try shopping for nearly any piece of sporting equipment (anyone bought a new golf driver?)

But I'm just getting into this field and although my friends say. "You paid what for a coffee maker????" , the cost of entry, is not outrageous, if you consider it a long-term hobby.

A Profitec double-boiler (Pro 300) has a PID for the brew boiler and should be able to allow one to experiment with brew temps from 195-205 with very little effort. From owner reports the steam boiler provides lots of steam for milk-based drinks from 6-12oz. This machine is about $1500 USD. The Baratza Sette 270 sounds like a very good single-dose grinder for about $380. Although I've read about reliability of the Baratza, it sounds like the company has some of the best customer service and hopefully reliability is much higher now. The Profitec brand has a high reputation for quality of construction and ease of repair if you have to do it yourself.

My stuff is on the way so will see how it stacks up. I would agree that after 2 months of reading most things here at HB, there are many, many more expensive options, that escalate to $10k+.. wow.. . If the decentEspresso stuff proves reliable, I think that might form the basis of cheaper future designs for home machines.

I tried the really low cost options ($500 for grinder/machine) with no knowledge of espresso making. Learned a lot. A panarello wand is pretty impossible to produce latte art. Pressurized baskets limit the quality of the espresso. But you top out pretty fast. With new gear I'll likely always be the limiting factor..

Dave

Bluenoser wrote:. With new gear I'll likely always be the limiting factor..

Dave

This is the critical factor for the escalating cost. As the operator gains experience/technique and is exposed to different coffees there grows a desire for improved equipment. The real expensive items though are the mandatory accessories.

OldNuc wrote: The real expensive items though are the mandatory accessories.

What are the mandatory accessories?

I'm guessing items like Acaia scales, LWW bean cellars, $150 tampers, Scace thermofilters, VST refractometers, etc. Unless OldNuc forgot to use quotes and meant "mandatory", in which case we're talking those rare Illy art collection demitasses at $100 a pop.