The goal is great TASTING espresso, not great LOOKING espresso - Page 2

Want to talk espresso but not sure which forum? If so, this is the right one.
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RegulatorJohnson

#11: Post by RegulatorJohnson »

oh great. now i look like a guy who only wants to make cool looking shots. not true.

i obsess about the entire process. i drink shots with my eyes closed. i look at the flavor wheel thats on the fridge. i truly enjoy great tasting espresso. i enjoy making it, the whole process.

however i also am a graphic artist i like cool looking pictures i like making cool looking things. this allows me to enjoy espresso in another way besides just drinking it.

some scientific types around here are obsessive with temps or pump profile or other things scientific and interesting to them.

i guess i want to make it clear that just because you really enjoy one aspect doesn't mean you don't care about the cup.

i dont kneel anymore. i just look in the reflection off the chrome drip tray. :D

i can understand the texture thing, i think i will dig out the single spot.

lets all enjoy some great tasting espresso, anyone can come over anytime just PM me.

jon
2012 BGA SW region rep. Roaster@cognoscenti LA

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espressme

#12: Post by espressme »

They did! :lol:

Cheers
richard
PS my 1¢: The bottom was added to save repaints of the kitchen when the high pressure boilers became common!> :) That would definitely reduce spits! I know from experiences with the older "Vesuvius" style steamers. These pfs are taken from them!
RegulatorJohnson wrote:just for a second think about this:
imagine a world where the naked PF came first, instead of the spouted PF.
what would the benefits be for using the pants, other than splitting the shot into 2?
...long snip..

Lets discuss the pros and cons besides taste and cool factor.

jon
richard penney LMWDP #090,

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Psyd

#13: Post by Psyd »

The way that a shot looks is a really good indicator as to how it will taste. I think that we can all agree that if it flows like water and it's as blonde as Barbie, it's probably not going to taste so good.
Looks are an indicator, and fairly dependable, but as the saying goes, looks can be deceiving. Let's all realize that I can't show you a picture of how my new technique tastes, but I can show you a picture of how the results looked. Describing taste is somewhat subjective, too, and (lighting and quality aide) pics tend to tell the story objectively.
Serious donuts are bad, and tend to taste bad. Serious simultaneous beading at the beginning of a pull tend to be good, and they'll taste better than the donuts, usually.
I gotta say that using looks as a secondary indicator of quality isn't so bad, given the lack of alternatives. It ain't that we all want shots that look good instead of shots that taste good, it's that we've been shown and told what good tasting shots look like, so we try to get our shots to look like that in the hopes that they will taste better.
And they do. Sure, there are exceptions that prove the rule, but if I had to make a bet, I'd bet that the shot in that pic was gonna taste purdy danged good! ; >
Espresso Sniper
One Shot, One Kill

LMWDP #175

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AndyS

#14: Post by AndyS »

Psyd wrote:The way that a shot looks is a really good indicator as to how it will taste.
That's pretty much the point that Jim and I are disputing. In the range of bottomless shots that vary from "mediocre looking" to "fantastic looking," I've found NO correlation to taste. During some espresso sessions I keep score, and it's been no more likely than 50:50 that the fantastic looking shots taste better than the mediocre looking shots.

IOW, in my humble experience, the obsession with the look of a shot is an unfortunate distraction.

(Obviously, grossly channeled or grotesque shots do NOT taste good).
-AndyS
VST refractometer/filter basket beta tester, no financial interest in the company

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Jasonian

#15: Post by Jasonian »

AndyS wrote:the obsession with the look of a shot is an unfortunate distraction.
That's a mouth full in a very concise print, if I do say so myself.

I've had more beautiful shots that tasted off than I care to count. On the flip side, I've had a surprisingly high number of pours that looked to be mistakes that tasted wonderful.

I've had some rather strange experiments with massive updosing sans the re-distribution ritual that led to horrendous channeling, yet, resulted in shots that actually tasted more like the coffee the blend was comprised of, and less like the "sum of its parts". I found it quite surprising, and very desirable.

The naked pours would have made half of this board sick to look at. The particular espresso was a huge step of enlightenment.
Owner - AJ Coffee Company
HB Rocks!

Matthew Brinski

#16: Post by Matthew Brinski »

cannonfodder wrote:Since then I have decided I prefer the shots from my single spout over the bottomless. It is less a taste issue and more a texture issue. The bottomless PF creates an abundance of crema, however that crema tends to be larger bubbled than a spouted shout. I prefer the finer texture and silkier mouthfeel I get from a single spout. It is like comparing stiff bubbly milk to micro foamed milk for me.
Dead on.

Also, despite the argument continuing for some time to come, I believe that spouts DO have an affect on taste. I think it's evident with brighter coffees especially when comparing bottomless to double spout.

Matthew Brinski

#17: Post by Matthew Brinski »

AndyS wrote:Reading the posts here, you'd think that half the people don't drink espresso. They just enjoy watching beautiful bottomless pours flow into the drip tray.

Haven't any of you had a mediocre-looking bottomless pour that tasted better than the perfect-looking pour that came before it? I have.
We're supposed to drink this stuff? I just installed an espresso film studio in my basement.

King Seven

#18: Post by King Seven »

Can't agree more over the frustration with the look of the bottom of the basket and also with producing as much crema (this one really bugs me - all too quickly becomes an absurd pissing contest) as is possible. Whilst any professional will tell you that on a bar the look of a pour is a better indicator of quality than can be discerned from the average consumer nothing beats tasting, tasting, tasting as you go...

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JR_Germantown

#19: Post by JR_Germantown »

RegulatorJohnson wrote:just for a second think about this:

imagine a world where the naked PF came first, instead of the spouted PF.

what would the benefits be for using the pants, other than splitting the shot into 2?
Great way to look at it, and I have my answers:

To keep my wall clean?!
To keep that hot coffee out of my eyes?!

Jack

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RegulatorJohnson

#20: Post by RegulatorJohnson »

the obsession with the look of a shot is an unfortunate distraction.
remove the word "shot" and replace it with any other food item.

is this why at most restaurants they just toss the food onto the plate without a care?

what is garnish for anyway?

can presentation affect the taste of what you are about to eat or drink?

serve the same chocolate mousse presented 2 different ways to the same person. one is just a spoon in the bowl, dropped on the table in front of you.... the other is piped gently into a champagne flute... etc.

food service is about presentation because we eat with our eyes first. a FN sea foam capp with dry giant bubble overflowing the cup does not look or taste as delicious as a gently textured micro foam with shiny glossy sweet milk.

BTW. i was showing the pic to show my distribution progression based on "no toucha anything". i didnt say hey look how delicious this shot looks. Dan said he could tell more about the shot later in the extraction so i put up the other pics. they are taken that way to record my progress and too look cool, im an artist. i never said my goal is to only take cool looking pictures of extractions.

:D hey dan maybe you need to remove the image upload capability of the website? since no one wants to enjoy pics of coffee extractions anymore. only charts and graphs allowed..? :D

a picture is worth a thousand words. i can share a picture with you guys easier than i can share an espresso, anyone is welcome to come over to my house, in salt lake city utah, for a shot, PM me first.

--
jon
2012 BGA SW region rep. Roaster@cognoscenti LA