Does the aeropress make early 20th style espresso? - Page 2

Want to talk espresso but not sure which forum? If so, this is the right one.
jpender

#11: Post by jpender »

Call it what you want. "Stovetop espresso" is what I used to call my moka pot. It also produces 1 bar or so.

thirdcrackfourthwave

#12: Post by thirdcrackfourthwave »

Steam is hotter than Aeropress extraction water.

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Marcelnl
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#13: Post by Marcelnl »

IMO neither is coming close to espresso, I dread what the taste of steam extraction was, the aeropress can make a good cup.
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mtbizzle

#14: Post by mtbizzle »

DamianWarS wrote:It would have to be a metal filter, fine grind and possibly a prismo or joepresso
See this recipe from Tom @ Sweet Maria's (this basic recipe is my favorite way to make aeropress btw). He grinds nearly to espresso + Prismo + paper filter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWFImo4uN64 (it is not possible to time stamp here? skip to 4:40... use 1/2 speed if you can't handle squirrel Tom :D ). The Prismo apparently has an 80 micron pore filter, + the 1 way valve. Stacking additional paper filters on top of the metal one may add some more resistance.

In Tom's words, it's not espresso (clearly), but it can make a concentrate that, diluted, is something like americano. I'd agree that it's a ways from standard filter/drip.

Interesting question Damian, I wonder if anybody around here has the equipment to try Tom's style recipe v.s. one of these old-style machines. I'm not too interested in the terminological questions, but maybe we could learn a little or identify some interesting techniques, if there are enough similarities between the two to compare them.

jpender

#15: Post by jpender »

There are lots of ways to make a strong, tasty cup of coffee. But espresso grind stirred into the liquid makes it more of an immersion brew. And the Prismo doesn't increase the pressure very much. Why bother with it all?

I think you'd need to grind fine, tamp the grounds, and put some sort of screen on top so that the puck isn't disturbed when the water is poured in. And then really lean on the thing, like 100 lbs of weight. Then you'd have a real, genuine fake espresso.

There are easier ways to do that. But as was already pointed out one needs to also consider the temperature profile. My limited understanding is that at least some of these old machines sent really hot water and maybe steam too through the grounds.

Marcelnl
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#16: Post by Marcelnl »

I may be wrong, yet I somehow thing those old machines were just an evolution an the way to the espresso as we know it now...a cheap coffee made for you on the go was the idea, I guess nobody knew how it should taste because I suspect proper espresso parameters were yet to be discovered......the public was the guinea pig in that experiment of burnt and likely horrible coffee.

Perhaps James Hoffman can do a video comparing a few of those ancient machines, should be a blast to watch.
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jpender

#17: Post by jpender »

It sounds like most of them, if not all, cooked the coffee. This article mentions one very early model that employed cooling fins to drop the water temperature. It said that none of those machines are known to exist. But what about the really early La Pavoni machines? Have any survived?

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DamianWarS (original poster)
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#18: Post by DamianWarS (original poster) »

thirdcrackfourthwave wrote:Steam is hotter than Aeropress extraction water.
Not sure how to steam interacted with the coffee and I'm quite sure it wasn't just straight steam but rather it was pressurized with steam in some way. The actual temp of the water used to brew is not clear.

DamianWarS (original poster)
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#19: Post by DamianWarS (original poster) »

Marcelnl wrote:I may be wrong, yet I somehow thing those old machines were just an evolution an the way to the espresso as we know it now...a cheap coffee made for you on the go was the idea, I guess nobody knew how it should taste because I suspect proper espresso parameters were yet to be discovered......the public was the guinea pig in that experiment of burnt and likely horrible coffee.

Perhaps James Hoffman can do a video comparing a few of those ancient machines, should be a blast to watch.
They are indeed but of course at the time it was simply known as espresso. Perhaps in 50 years we will all be pulling different shots based on completely different technology because something better came along. It's still espresso today even if the standard developes into something else.

I'm sure JH would love to try one of these machines and make a YouTube video about the experience. They have remade some so it is possible however I'm not actually sure if they are used or not. He would have to be personally invited to use one and I'm sure he would love the opportunity and probably is not so far fetched.

Jeff
Team HB

#20: Post by Jeff »

I wasn't there, but as I recall the legend, the steam-driven coffee was caffé espresso. It was a bit of a great word, meaning both "expressed" (pushed out under pressure) as well as "quickly". I also remember the early lever machines having to "market" their strange foam as something desirable, caffé crema.