Disillusioned with "precision" baskets (a bit of a rant)
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Derryisreal
- Supporter ♡
I am about to give up trying to "upgrade" my original ECM Faema type double basket. Lured by the promise of more consistent extractions, straight walls for even grounds distribution, improved espresso taste and ridgeless design, I kept buying one after another and... nothing...
Baristapro 18g Nanotech, Baristapro 15g Nanotech, IMS Competitive Precision 2 12/18g, all high flow with thin, watery, bitter tasting results in the cup. I am sure this topic has been beaten to death, but for the life of me, I can't understand why all aftermarket baskets have to be of the stupid high flow variety
Even the upcoming Weber and Sworksdesign billet baskets are high flow. Sure, Sworksdesign advertises a "Standard flow" version, but with ~ 1,300 holes, this seems very unlikely.
Doug Weber annoyingly advises to "grind a little bit finer. That's not a big deal". It absolutely is, and I can't help but think in my setup this won't work either.
Finally, I wanted to have a straight walled, ridgeless, normal flow basket and the Espresso Parts EPHQ 14g ridgeless seemed to fit the bill. I ordered it, got a pretty extraction with it in the same amount of time I do with the OEM basket... only to get watery, slightly bitter coffee again
At this point I am inclined to believe that I should stock up on OEM baskets as everything else turns my espresso into crap.
Maybe I am doing something wrong. I do adjust grind size for each new basket, I do a lot of puck prep (WDT with Sworksdesign 0.25 mm needles, OCD on its shallowest setting, Bravo tamper), but I only ever get excellent results with the OEM basket.
Sorry for the long rant.
Baristapro 18g Nanotech, Baristapro 15g Nanotech, IMS Competitive Precision 2 12/18g, all high flow with thin, watery, bitter tasting results in the cup. I am sure this topic has been beaten to death, but for the life of me, I can't understand why all aftermarket baskets have to be of the stupid high flow variety
Even the upcoming Weber and Sworksdesign billet baskets are high flow. Sure, Sworksdesign advertises a "Standard flow" version, but with ~ 1,300 holes, this seems very unlikely.
Doug Weber annoyingly advises to "grind a little bit finer. That's not a big deal". It absolutely is, and I can't help but think in my setup this won't work either.
Finally, I wanted to have a straight walled, ridgeless, normal flow basket and the Espresso Parts EPHQ 14g ridgeless seemed to fit the bill. I ordered it, got a pretty extraction with it in the same amount of time I do with the OEM basket... only to get watery, slightly bitter coffee again
At this point I am inclined to believe that I should stock up on OEM baskets as everything else turns my espresso into crap.
Maybe I am doing something wrong. I do adjust grind size for each new basket, I do a lot of puck prep (WDT with Sworksdesign 0.25 mm needles, OCD on its shallowest setting, Bravo tamper), but I only ever get excellent results with the OEM basket.
Sorry for the long rant.
Neither milk, nor sugar.
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Capuchin Monk
Marketeers only care about 1 thing, sales. They will do it even if it means BS-ing. Consumers need to be skeptical of ads and reviews especially when there is no double blind test involved.
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zefkir
Two things, thinking that you should pull with the same parameters with different baskets is a mistake. Lighter roasts (think filter roasts single origins) like those high flow baskets.
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Derryisreal (original poster)
- Supporter ♡
Thanks, I am aware that high flow baskets favor light roasts. And I do grind finer to accommodate the difference in the flow, but that throws off the taste of the espresso. And the EPHQ 14g is not a high flow, but it still failed to deliver.
Neither milk, nor sugar.
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zefkir
You could try updosing, keeping the same grind size or go coarser and pulling shots with either the same duration or faster. Imho, there are a lot of situations where grinding finer isn't the solution.
In anycase, stock baskets are plenty available as spare parts at a lot of place if you prefer them.
On a personal level, I mostly pull turbo shots with light filter roasts, so your experience might not be mine.
In anycase, stock baskets are plenty available as spare parts at a lot of place if you prefer them.
On a personal level, I mostly pull turbo shots with light filter roasts, so your experience might not be mine.
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cafeIKE
- Supporter ❤
Baskets should be size as SML. The idea that a basket has a fixed dose is ludicrous.
I think I have around a dozen different M sizes [formerly double or 14g] in which I brew from about -14 to 17+g.
When you get close to a good shot, increase the dose a bit and see what changes. Grind a ¼ tick coarser and see what changes. Then reverse dose adjust and grind from the starting point. Do the same with another M sized basket. Eventually you will know the baskets' characteristics.
Adjust dose, not grind as the coffee ages, if necessary. In 0.1±0.05g increments.
I think I have around a dozen different M sizes [formerly double or 14g] in which I brew from about -14 to 17+g.
When you get close to a good shot, increase the dose a bit and see what changes. Grind a ¼ tick coarser and see what changes. Then reverse dose adjust and grind from the starting point. Do the same with another M sized basket. Eventually you will know the baskets' characteristics.
Adjust dose, not grind as the coffee ages, if necessary. In 0.1±0.05g increments.
Ian's Coffee Stuff
http://www.ieLogical.com/coffee
http://www.ieLogical.com/coffee
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Derryisreal (original poster)
- Supporter ♡
Very true, this works without a fail.cafeIKE wrote:
Adjust dose, not grind as the coffee ages, if necessary. In 0.1±0.05g increments.
Neither milk, nor sugar.
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slybarman
I'm using a 14g (15g ?) baristapro nanotech basket and it works great. no hassle, no drama. great mouthfeel and great flavor from my shots - mostly darker roasts. I'm not really following what your issue is. adjust your grind until you get the shot flow you are looking for, just like with any other basket.
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gscace
It sounds like something else is wrong. I don't have experience with all of the baskets there, but I'm really familiar with the IMS / E&B Lab baskets and they are really good. And I don't know about "high flow." I use them with normal flow, or whatever flow works. What is your grinder? Is it able to grind finer? What coffee machine? It would help us to know how you are using your equipment (dose, prep), long your extraction times are, are you able to see the bottom of the basket (bottomless portafilter?) What kind of coffee are you using? AS I said I think that there is more to the story than the basket.Derryisreal wrote:I am about to give up trying to "upgrade" my original ECM Faema type double basket. Lured by the promise of more consistent extractions, straight walls for even grounds distribution, improved espresso taste and ridgeless design, I kept buying one after another and... nothing...
Baristapro 18g Nanotech, Baristapro 15g Nanotech, IMS Competitive Precision 2 12/18g, all high flow with thin, watery, bitter tasting results in the cup. I am sure this topic has been beaten to death, but for the life of me, I can't understand why all aftermarket baskets have to be of the stupid high flow variety
Even the upcoming Weber and Sworksdesign billet baskets are high flow. Sure, Sworksdesign advertises a "Standard flow" version, but with ~ 1,300 holes, this seems very unlikely.
Doug Weber annoyingly advises to "grind a little bit finer. That's not a big deal". It absolutely is, and I can't help but think in my setup this won't work either.
Finally, I wanted to have a straight walled, ridgeless, normal flow basket and the Espresso Parts EPHQ 14g ridgeless seemed to fit the bill. I ordered it, got a pretty extraction with it in the same amount of time I do with the OEM basket... only to get watery, slightly bitter coffee again
At this point I am inclined to believe that I should stock up on OEM baskets as everything else turns my espresso into crap.
Maybe I am doing something wrong. I do adjust grind size for each new basket, I do a lot of puck prep (WDT with Sworksdesign 0.25 mm needles, OCD on its shallowest setting, Bravo tamper), but I only ever get excellent results with the OEM basket.
Sorry for the long rant.
-Greg
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Derryisreal (original poster)
- Supporter ♡
Thanks, Graig, you are right, I should have provided more details.
For starters, yes my grinder can definitely go much finer (ECM V-Titan 64), my grind setting is around 2 (you can go up to 9 or down to zero it will take a lot of turns of the worm gear).
However, I feel grinding finer affects the taste of the espresso and if I take it to an extreme, I get channeling, kind of no matter what prep I do.
My dose is usually 17 g (+0.5 g as the coffee ages).
I pull the shots at 9 bar as shown on the dial of my ECM Puristika
I always use bottomless portafilter.
Temperature is 95 Celsius which seemed a bit high, but is what David Schomer recommends.
And the coffee is Vivace Dolce.
I usually go for 1:1 to 1:1.5 ratios. Love ristrettos!
Shot time is around 28 seconds, up to 35 sometimes, never more.
For starters, yes my grinder can definitely go much finer (ECM V-Titan 64), my grind setting is around 2 (you can go up to 9 or down to zero it will take a lot of turns of the worm gear).
However, I feel grinding finer affects the taste of the espresso and if I take it to an extreme, I get channeling, kind of no matter what prep I do.
My dose is usually 17 g (+0.5 g as the coffee ages).
I pull the shots at 9 bar as shown on the dial of my ECM Puristika
I always use bottomless portafilter.
Temperature is 95 Celsius which seemed a bit high, but is what David Schomer recommends.
And the coffee is Vivace Dolce.
I usually go for 1:1 to 1:1.5 ratios. Love ristrettos!
Shot time is around 28 seconds, up to 35 sometimes, never more.
Neither milk, nor sugar.
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