CoffeeToolsCA Etsy Rotating Distribution Tool - Page 8

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JohnB.
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#71: Post by JohnB. »

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:Any discernible difference in taste?

TNX
I don't usually drink the same blend/bean twice in one day but I tried it today with a blend I'm familiar with to see what I'd notice. Surprisingly the shot with no WDT was noticeably creamier and tastier. I'll have to play with this more once the MC 6 arrives and I get the burrs seasoned.
LMWDP 267

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baldheadracing
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#72: Post by baldheadracing »

v4 update: I've slowed my RPM way down - 20 RPM currently, and reduced the number of rotations to five.
(FYI, v4 spins the needles that hit the outer edges of the basket quite quickly.)

I'm not doing Curtis' gradual raising of the device, although doing that makes intuitive sense to me, and is what I do with the Levercraft tool. My funnels are just too tall for use with the Etsy device.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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BaristaBoy E61
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#73: Post by BaristaBoy E61 »

JohnB. wrote:I don't usually drink the same blend/bean twice in one day but I tried it today with a blend I'm familiar with to see what I'd notice. Surprisingly the shot with no WDT was noticeably creamier and tastier. I'll have to play with this more once the MC 6 arrives and I get the burrs seasoned.

No surprised. Watched a series of videos where Greg Scace and Jay Caragay pulled dozens of shots on Gregs 1-group LM Leva X using only a distribution dozer and a tamper, not once did they WDT or RDT.

Shots seemed to be fine.

Doesn't mean I won't get one, eventually...
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"

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baldheadracing
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#74: Post by baldheadracing »

BaristaBoy E61 wrote: No surprised. Watched a series of videos where Greg Scace and Jay Caragay pulled dozens of shots on Gregs 1-group LM Leva X using only a distribution dozer and a tamper, not once did they WDT or RDT.

Shots seemed to be fine.

Doesn't mean I won't get one, eventually...
When you pull beans directly out of the freezer like they did, the beans will get enough surface moisture on them to dissipate static charge, so no need for more moisture via RDT. They didn't RDT for the coffee Jay brought, but his coffee was darker than the typical levels of roast that benefit the most from RDT in the weather conditions that the videos appear to be shot in.

As for WDT, it does depend on the grinder. At least from the EK43, the grounds were being shaken, so distribution was being done.

To me, WDT:
1. reduces the incidence of visible channeling (spritzes). For example, let's say that with a very hard bean very lightly roasted and no WDT, there is a spritz every twentieth pull (5%) - say about once a week. With WDT, say a spritz once every ten weeks - so about once every 200 shots (0.5%). I'll spend the extra time to WDT just because spritzes annoy me, whether I can taste their effect or not.
2. evens out the bed before tamping. Again, this is grinder-dependent. A quality commercial hopper espresso grinder should give a nice even bed right from the spout or doser (and dosers do perform distribution). At most, the bed might need some dressing from an OCD (now NCD) tool. There are multiple ways to even out the bed; but if you're doing WDT anyway ...

So we're at the point of the effect of a particular WDT tool + technique on taste. What is known is "too much" fiddling with the coffee puck will result in the Brazil-nut effect (fines migration within the puck, which typically increases shot times). So what I am aiming for with the Etsy tool is to come up with a technique that does not change extraction time. If I get the same shot times with no tool vs. with the tool, then I can run an experiment to taste and measure extraction yield and conclude that the tool is worth me - and only me - continuing to use, or not. YMMV.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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Spitz.me
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#75: Post by Spitz.me »

JohnB. wrote:I was impressed with how much nicer the V4 is to use compared to the 3.55 I'd purchased previously. The addition of the bearing transforms the noisy, sloppy 3.55 that felt like a cheap toy into a smooth, tight piece of equipment that is enjoyable to use. I'm using it with medium roast coffees which may or may not actually need it. I give it 5-6 slow spins, level the puck with my Amazon leveler and tamp. The Etsy tool fluffs up the grinds nicely and I have no issues with channeling but then I really don't usually have a problem with channeling when I don't WDT.
I've been mulling over getting the v4 with the 50% discount since I bought the 3.55 since it looked like the tool significantly improved for usability and reliability. Your report tipped me over the edge. Well, that and the fact that the slop has either gotten worse with time, or I'm just starting to get more and more annoyed with having to hold it in place as it juts around.

Thanks!
LMWDP #670

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pizzaman383
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#76: Post by pizzaman383 »

How does one get the 50% discount?
Curtis
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mgrayson
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#77: Post by mgrayson »

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:Any discernible difference in taste?

TNX
I have used the last three versions. The latest is in a different class for smoothness of operation. The first had no adjustable height, the second was adjustable, but felt about to fall apart at any second. The only problem with the latest version is that the needle paths do NOT change with each revolution. By the time the outer gear has gone around once, its needles are in exactly the same position. I deal with this by letting the tool rotate a bit as I'm using it.

I sense no difference in taste between the 3.55 and 4. But I'm easily pleased.

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baldheadracing
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#78: Post by baldheadracing »

pizzaman383 wrote:How does one get the 50% discount?
On Etsy, DH said when v4 came out:
**Existing owners will get a big discount. Just shoot me a message :-)
FYI, he also has a v4 for the LSM group (although currently out of stock).
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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RapidCoffee
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#79: Post by RapidCoffee »

baldheadracing wrote:So we're at the point of the effect of a particular WDT tool + technique on taste. What is known is "too much" fiddling with the coffee puck will result in the Brazil-nut effect (fines migration within the puck, which typically increases shot times).
The Brazil nut effect (granular convection) is not the same as fines migration. Fines migration was proposed as a percolation mechanism in the puck during extraction, at 9 bars of pressure and near-boiling water, as far back as Petracco in Illy & Viani's Espresso Coffee (Ch.8 Percolation). Granular convection describes the tendency for large particles in a dry mixture to migrate to the surface during shaking.

Fines migration may well be an important mechanism regulating flow rate, although empirical evidence is scanty. But I am very skeptical of granular convection claims. Coffee grinds are oily and static-y; nothing like mixtures of sand/gravel or mixed nuts. In general, better distribution increases shot times because it reduces channeling. Where is the evidence that "too much fiddling" increases shot times beyond this?
John

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baldheadracing
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#80: Post by baldheadracing »

Ugh. You got me :oops:. I read the article last month and will try to find it again. The part I left out is including an erosion model. I remember reading the name of the model, thinking the name rang a bell, and the model was in my Soil Science textbook. (I took courses in soil science at university long ago.) Granular convection is not the sole thing; one has to account that some stuff will dissolve, but there will be insoluble stuff that is left behind when a column of water is pushed through the media (soil or coffee). It is the insoluble particles that migrate. Anyhow, no use discussing it further until I find the paper. (I knew I should have downloaded the paper, d*mmit.)
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada