Coffee Storage experiments
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Ok, I started my experiment today. I am using the following containers:
My daughter is going to mix the samples for me, so that I don't know what I'm tasting, and I will take notes. I will not look at the sample-match ups until 4 weeks are up, so that I cannot draw conclusions until the experiment is over.
I would LOVE for others to do similar experiments, and post their results here.
Oh, here's a picture:
- 3-ounce glass spice bottle with metal screw-top lid: http://www.containerstore.com/s/kitchen ... d=10013579
- 3-ounce acrylic bale-top spice jar: http://www.containerstore.com/s/kitchen ... d=10011992
- 125 ml bale-top Fido canning jar: http://www.amazon.com/125-Terrine-Herme ... B00DH08GRE
- Evak Mini valved storage: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UMXUG54/
- Resealable plastic vacuum bags: http://www.amazon.com/Waring-PVS1000CGB ... 009O9VI86/
My daughter is going to mix the samples for me, so that I don't know what I'm tasting, and I will take notes. I will not look at the sample-match ups until 4 weeks are up, so that I cannot draw conclusions until the experiment is over.
I would LOVE for others to do similar experiments, and post their results here.
Oh, here's a picture:
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Very cool! Do you not intend to freeze the beans?
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....
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- Joined: 8 years ago
No, I hadn't. But, since this is supposed to be a fair and blind trial, and because you reminded me of that, I vacuum-packed up 4 more samples (I had 3/4 of a bag left over) and froze them.
But, they didn't get packed at the same time as the others. When I picked up the coffee from the roaster yesterday afternoon, they were less than 24 hours post-roast (though not much less). I packed everything up about 7:30pm last night, and the remainder was put into an Airscape (I had about 3/4 of a bag left, from my original 3). I took the freezer samples from the Airscape, which means they were packed 11 hours after the rest of the samples. So, that's something I'll have to note as a difference. However, I'll include freezing in with my future rounds, and pack the to-be-frozen samples at the same time as the rest.
A long time ago, I decided freezing the coffee made it taste funny, so it's something I do only rarely, and have concentrated my efforts over the years at preserving them at room temperature. But the whole point of this is to see what actually works, and bypass my own pre-conceived notions.
But, they didn't get packed at the same time as the others. When I picked up the coffee from the roaster yesterday afternoon, they were less than 24 hours post-roast (though not much less). I packed everything up about 7:30pm last night, and the remainder was put into an Airscape (I had about 3/4 of a bag left, from my original 3). I took the freezer samples from the Airscape, which means they were packed 11 hours after the rest of the samples. So, that's something I'll have to note as a difference. However, I'll include freezing in with my future rounds, and pack the to-be-frozen samples at the same time as the rest.
A long time ago, I decided freezing the coffee made it taste funny, so it's something I do only rarely, and have concentrated my efforts over the years at preserving them at room temperature. But the whole point of this is to see what actually works, and bypass my own pre-conceived notions.
- tohenk2
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applauseCathyWeeks wrote: But the whole point of this is to see what actually works, and bypass my own pre-conceived notions.
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Well we look forward to the results! I personally freeze right now so am very interested myself in your thoughts about how that affects taste.
The consensus by members much more experienced than myself is that it does not affect taste and was shown not to in blind tasting.
Of course, that would all rely on a dependable seal and process, etc.
The consensus by members much more experienced than myself is that it does not affect taste and was shown not to in blind tasting.
Of course, that would all rely on a dependable seal and process, etc.
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....
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Thanks. I really hope others will do similar experiments and post their results as well. A great deal of coffee-making is based on personal preference, and also I suspect, on urban legends, conjecture, and trends (I'm not finger-pointing here - I know that I'm as bad as the next person about latching onto coffee trends). That's partly why I decided to just go back to the basics, and why I'm going to do a blind cupping. (I could totally see myself thinking that the most expensive options were the obviously the best, and therefore produced the freshest beans a the time of the cupping, if I knew which was which).
I'm trying to cover 4 different storage philosophies here:
I'm trying to cover 4 different storage philosophies here:
- Vacuum packing/removing as much O2 as possible.
- Airtight seals that allow pressurization from the CO2, but not so tight that O2 can't be driven out.
- Freezing, which would presumably halt outgassing, which I would guess means that it's better to freeze beans at the peak, about roast+3, rather than before.
- Valves that let CO2 out, but no air in.
- doublehelix
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CO2 is denser than air---if you have a tank of CO2, simply flush a containers of beans with this gas and it will displace air. To do this, place a tube at the bottom of your container filled with beans than let the CO2 flow. If you want to see how much time you need to flush for, place a lit match near the container's opening-- it will extinguish when filled with CO2.
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Cool, thanks.
I was thinking about getting a clear plastic bin (like for under the bed), and placing all of my ready to go containers, but with the lids off inside it, giving it a blast of CO2, and then lidding the containers while inside the bin. I'm curious how long the CO2 will be in the bin, before it disperses. I was even thinking about cutting two holes in the lid of the bin, big enough for me to fit my hands and lower arms in, to help prevent the dispersal before I completed packaging my beans.
I was thinking about getting a clear plastic bin (like for under the bed), and placing all of my ready to go containers, but with the lids off inside it, giving it a blast of CO2, and then lidding the containers while inside the bin. I'm curious how long the CO2 will be in the bin, before it disperses. I was even thinking about cutting two holes in the lid of the bin, big enough for me to fit my hands and lower arms in, to help prevent the dispersal before I completed packaging my beans.
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Keep in mind that both O2 and CO2 are gasses and there is a huge space between the individual molecules. Purging is a somewhat complex process and just a blast of gas is a complete waste.
The heavier molecule gas must be fed in at the bottom at a very slow feed rate. A candle is not a valid test of zero O2. Figure 5-8 times the volume of the container of purge gas.
The other thing to consider is some of these storage mechanisms tend to markedly shorten the useful life of the coffee when removed from storage. You want the coffee to remain stable for as long as possible after removal from storage.
The heavier molecule gas must be fed in at the bottom at a very slow feed rate. A candle is not a valid test of zero O2. Figure 5-8 times the volume of the container of purge gas.
The other thing to consider is some of these storage mechanisms tend to markedly shorten the useful life of the coffee when removed from storage. You want the coffee to remain stable for as long as possible after removal from storage.
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Why? Dispersal?OldNuc wrote:Keep in mind that both O2 and CO2 are gasses and there is a huge space between the individual molecules. Purging is a somewhat complex process and just a blast of gas is a complete waste.
If it's heavier, why wouldn't a slow release over the top just fall to the bottom of the container? The candle isn't a valid test of zero O2, but it would test for a lower oxygen environment, yes? I guess the issue is if the candle requires a LOT of O2, then the candle test might only show that it's ever-so-slightly lower O2, rather than significantly? And why 5-8 times? (My last chemistry class was 29 years ago).The heavier molecule gas must be fed in at the bottom at a very slow feed rate. A candle is not a valid test of zero O2. Figure 5-8 times the volume of the container of purge gas.
I don't think that matters, given that I'm testing single-serving batches. (It was the LWW Bean Cellar that got me interested in this.) Unless you mean that it would be such that the 10 minutes between coming out of storage, and being brewed is impacted?The other thing to consider is some of these storage mechanisms tend to markedly shorten the useful life of the coffee when removed from storage. You want the coffee to remain stable for as long as possible after removal from storage.
Also, which ones? I know from reading here, that Illy coffee goes stale remarkably quickly once it's opened, being pressurized. But I thought it was on the order of magnitude of days, not minutes?