one lump or two? wrote:I think the only straight shot of theirs I have really, really enjoyed was a straight shot of Vita, not Dolce.

That's a bit odd, since Vita is billed as Vivace's latte blend. Out of curiosity, I ordered a bag of Vita as well as Dolce for this review. I did not care for it as much, certainly not as a straight shot, or even with small amounts of milk.

Interesting side questions (or poll subjects):
Is it possible to design a really excellent blend that works only for milk drinks?
(I suppose this depends on the quantity of milk - I'm not a big gulp latte fan - but in my experience, the answer is no. If I dislike a straight shot, it might be salvaged to the drinkable level by sugar and milk, but it will never become one of my favorites.)

Do some roasts work well for straight shots, and respond poorly to milk?
(My answer is a qualified yes. In general, if I enjoy a straight shot, I also like it with milk - but some roasts hold up much better to milk than others.)


...split from Favorite Espresso Blends 2010 by moderator...

RapidCoffee wrote:That's a bit odd, since Vita is billed as Vivace's latte blend. Out of curiosity, I ordered a bag of Vita as well as Dolce for this review. I did not care for it as much, certainly not as a straight shot, or even with small amounts of milk.

For what it's worth, I had the same experience with Vita/Dolce in early 2008:


"Vita seems a little bit easier on my technique than Dolce... Less prone to go utterly, totally sour and rubbery when I make a slight mistake. I am digging it." (Flickr link)


"The Vita ristretto, despite its pull time, was the best I have had from this bag. I wouldn't touch Dolce again with a 10 foot pole, but this stuff is amazing on Vetrano. This particular shot was like a cup of dark chocolate, with some really nice "high notes," which I hesitate to describe as fruity." (Flickr Link)

Of course, these impressions are rather old, in fact dating back to before Schomer switched to arabica-only blends. Readers probably ought to keep in mind that if your impressions of any blend aren't fairly recent, they may not be very comparable to results with the current iteration of that blend. That's starkly true of a coffee like Black Cat Classic, but it's also categorically true of every coffee blend at least to some degree. In any case, for readers who may be wondering, I declined to review Dolce with my fellow reviewers this time around due to a scheduling conflict and some ordering confusion that left me out of town during the coffee's prime window; trying it with 3-4 days was really problematic for me and I didn't feel like I got a fair handle on it. So I'm going to refrain from making any comparisons based on my latest experience with the coffees.

Perhaps I was too focused on the Dolce, and made a hasty judgment on the Vita. (OTOH I found Dolce quite easy to pull.) I'll take the remaining Vita from the freezer and give it another try.

I've definitely had some espresso blends (or SO's) that were consistently better in milk, and some that were consistently better straight. Of course this might all be just down to the way that I end up pulling the shots. Usually what happens is that when I'm dialing in a blend I end up targeting some flavor that I was either specifically looking for, or that caught my attention, and I tweak grind and dose to get that flavor to come out well. Once I've got the shot where I like it the other flavors in the cup might either be way too concentrated and strong for a straight shot, too mellow to stand up in milk, or sometimes the flavors just clash with milk (for example if it's very citrusy).

I'd say that it's usually the trickier blends or SOs that find themselves suited to only one kind of drink, for the blends that are more forgiving I'm usually able to tweak things one way or the other to get a good straight shot or a good macchiato.

Although I would say that I don't ever remember coming across a blend that tastes better in a cappuccino then as a macchiato. This is probably my personal preference, it's too hard to pull a shot that delivers interesting flavors in that much milk.

But if anyone has suggestions for a great cappuccino blend, I'd love to hear them, I've got a couple cups sitting in the corner of my shelf that I never get to use.

I have definitely found that if I dislike a coffee or blend straight, milk doesn't help it. I have had coffees that taste better iced than they did hot. As far as having a blend work better in milk? I don't think "better" is really the word compared to having it straight. but there are coffees, indeed that stand up better than others with milk. But I find this is more personal tastes than anything.

I agree that a huge milky latte isn't my absolute favorite. I prefer a subtle milk drink like a cafe macchiato. Though, my milk steaming/frothing skills are absolutely underwhelming right now.

All of this depends hugely on the consistency of any blend, which is going to come down to how good the blender is at maintaining a constant taste for the blend in question. I'd suppose there are a few people who are really good at this, who can aim at the same target over and over again, during a long period of time, and achieve more or less the same results.

Otherwise, you are dealing with a blend name as no more than a marketing tool on the part of the blender. Or, perhaps viewed more favorably, you are looking at a particular producer's best efforts given the green beans he has available at any particular point in time.

This whole model, the idea of maintaining a constant blend, has more to do with how single malt scotch is produced than with coffee. I think it is hugely easier for the "nose," using scotch blender terminology, to maintain a consistent taste in what they produce, then it is for the proprietor or blender of a coffee roaster to attain a consistent taste profile. It is probably both more honest and more realistic, for the coffee blender, to try to just give it his best shot within rather broad limits, to produce the best that he can produce given the greens he has available at the moment.

Getting now to the milk drink aspect of this thread; my personal opinion is that milk can hide a multitude of sins and that as long as the milk is decently foamed, and the coffee is acceptable in quality, that it would be hard for me to detect a whole lot of difference among many coffees that might be used to make a milk drink. As a result, I generally use whatever coffee is the most aged or most undesireable for whatever reason, on a given day, to make the milk drinks that I make.

ken

another_jim wrote:When James Hoffman won the WBC, he trounced everyone in the cappa category by using a straight roasted Kenya. I would have loved to be judging, since I've never had an even half way decent cappa at barista competitions (with a single shot in a full five ounce cup of milk being compulsory, the competitors basically don't have a prayer to get anything with pronounced taste). The nice thing about a Kenya for milk drinks is if you take it to a rolling second crack, it makes even a Sumatra look wimpy when it comes to roast tastes that punch through milk.

I have always accepted the party line: that certain coffees/blends/roasts excel for straight shots, others for milk, and seldom the twain shall meet. But when I reexamine my personal preferences, this just doesn't hold up very well.

I pulled a few shots of Vita this morning: great mouthfeel, lingering aftertaste... but I still prefer Dolce. And I don't find that either blend holds up well to large amounts of milk (10oz milk for a double?? ).

I've never had much success with Kenyas in espresso, but maybe it's time to give them another try as well.

RapidCoffee wrote:I've never had much success with Kenyas in espresso, but maybe it's time to give them another try as well.

Same here, until I tried Terrior's Kagumoini. First batch I got was awesome for straight espresso and quite nice in short milk drinks (e.g. a double cortado with some cream mixed into the milk -- yum.) Pulled 13g-14g/196.5F/1.75 oz/25 sec. Second batch was very good, but not quite as good as the first. I'm pretty sure that's because it was six days old when I got it. Unusual for Terroir, which is a day away from me by UPS and usually ships within a day or two of roast. Hopefully that was an anamoly and you'll get it closer to roast.