another_jim wrote: It all adds up to a witches brew that can rile up even someone as mild mannered as Andy.

Don't make excuses, Jim. Human decency is human decency. Anyone who has ever lived could easily use what you mentioned, and a few more, to justify the most horrible of actions. We must never condone that or give the impression that it is excusable. No one is perfect, but some try harder than others to be decent.

I'm not just making excuses for Andy, but also myself. ... And there is a huge gap between having a heated argument, even one for which one needs to apologize, and "horrible." I envy your very sheltered life if you can still think of anything verbal as horrible.

No excuses, Jim--for anyone.

another_jim wrote:... And there is a huge gap between having a heated argument, even one for which one needs to apologize, and "horrible." I envy your very sheltered life if you can still think of anything verbal as horrible.

My original comment took this into account. Reread it in the tone with which I wrote it.

Marshall wrote:Why? Do you stop for a better look at car wrecks?

Nope, but since it came up I wouldn't mind having some blanks filled in. Started doing that here on my own...

Marshall wrote:I don't know what you consider "recently," but alt.coffee as people fondly remember it pretty much ceased to exist after 2007, when it became a stage for two sociopaths to act out their symptoms. One used a multitude of names.

Ah, alt.coffee, where the www resembled more the WWF, and the spectator/partisans continued to pummel each other with folding chairs after the actual combatants had long since departed the ring to share a laugh and a six-pack.

another_jim wrote:I'm not just making excuses for Andy, but also myself. ... And there is a huge gap between having a heated argument, even one for which one needs to apologize, and "horrible." I envy your very sheltered life if you can still think of anything verbal as horrible.

+1

jbviau wrote:Nope, but since it came up I wouldn't mind having some blanks filled in. Started doing that here on my own...

I agree Josh. I see this "the thing that killed alt.coffee" mentioned often enough to be curious too - it came before our time I guess. Even so, why not have it explained if the reference continues to be used - learning from the past isn't a bad thing in my book.

EricBNC wrote:I agree Josh. I see this "the thing that killed alt.coffee" mentioned often enough to be curious too - it came before our time I guess. Even so, why not have it explained if the reference continues to be used - learning from the past isn't a bad thing in my book.

What killed alt.coffee isn't very relevant here, because it couldn't happen on an effectively moderated forum. Both the miscreants were thrown off CG and H-B long before they could do any damage.

There is a lot of gold to be mined in the old alt.coffee threads, including pearls of history from Donald Schoenholt and the introduction of PID controls to espresso machines by Greg Scace and Andy Schecter. But focusing on what killed it just strikes me as morbid curiousity.

For some of us there is the nostalgia of being a newbie. Here's my first post from 2000:

Although my Krups Novo stubbornly refuses to give up the ghost after 6
years, I am tired of its mediocre espresso and ready to upgrade (the
cappuccino has been o.k., since I got rid of the frother snorkel).

I really don't want to spend more than $300, but might consider $400
or so if there is a very good reason to do so. I've tentatively
decided on a Gaggia Coffee. This newsgroup seems to favor the Gaggia
Classic (within the Gaggia line). Is there a noticeable difference in
beverage quality, ease of use or durability between the Coffee and the
Classic?

Thanks for any advice.

Sound familiar?

Marshall wrote:Sound familiar?

Marshall:

That's a very touching newbie post. Thanks for sharing it and the pointers of useful information to be gleaned on alt.coffee.

I believe that curiosity about alt.coffee's demise doesn't have to be morbid. Someone can be interested in the history of this hobby. As you pointed out we can see in comparison the advantages of a moderated thread. Perhaps we can learn more about how disputes occur online and how to avoid them. I expect its demise was very painful for many of you, just as it would be for me if H-B were to go away. If the moderators are willing perhaps a discussion of alt.coffee's demise could proceed on another thread because that topic is an entirely separate saga from the one that started this thread.

Sounds very familiar, indeed. What a difference a decade (plus) makes.

I'm not familiar with many other forums, but I'm a big fan of the way this one is moderated, the quality of the content and the general tone of the conversations.