Jeff wrote:For me, which is perhaps different than what a Q Grader might say, I'm looking for balance at two levels. The first is that the subtle flavors are present and harmonious. My preference, if the coffee supports it, would be extracting a (now mythical) Ethiopian that was perceived as sweet with a moderate blueberry note and an accent of bergamot over an in-your-face "blueberry bomb". The second part is how does the overall experience come together. Is there a smooth transition from the first sip through the finish?

Thanks for the clear explanation of your use of the term balanced. I wonder if that is the common usage.

Jeff wrote:Well established among contemporary espresso enthusiasts. An actionable version of the published research is at https://strivefortone.com/2020/09/19/lo ... -espresso/

The journal article can be found at https://www.cell.com/matter/pdfExtended ... 19)30410-2

Outgrowth of work using DE1 is discussed at https://pocketsciencecoffee.com/2022/05 ... actamundo/

In short, if you are willing to abandon traditional shot parameters, there's a lot of extraction space that can produce arguably better espresso with lower variance. This is especially valuable with coffees that are more challenging to extract well.

Manny are also finding that lower temperatures as well as declining temperature profiles during the shot can improve the flavor of the espresso produced.

I guess what struck me in the article i initially referenced, was that it doesnt seem that it was examining turbo style shot ( 6 bar, coarser grinder 1 to 3 output in 15-20 sec)

But achieving the higher extraction by way of 7 bar, with long 15-30 sec pre-infusion (so i would assume finer grind, slayer style shot). Though i dont see a reference to shot time in the article (https://towardsdatascience.com/espresso ... 43a3c4044e)

Guess i like the idea of achieving the higher extraction with the longer/finer grind shot and a more conventional ratio to preserve some of the texture.
So was curious if anyone has any testing in this area, to confirm or counter the conclusion made in article.
As i thought that while the long contact time of an extended preinfuison helped with taming light roasts, it didnt really boost extraction%. But this articles seems to suggest that it gives a decent boost (at least when at 7 bars max pressure after the pre-infusion).

Jeff wrote:Well established among contemporary espresso enthusiasts. An actionable version of the published research is at https://strivefortone.com/2020/09/19/lo ... -espresso/

Manny are also finding that lower temperatures as well as declining temperature profiles during the shot can improve the flavor of the espresso produced.

While of course you'll find folks here exclaiming the glories of the Decent & other high-priced "end game" machines to accomplish this (which is actually an emulation of some well-regarded lever machines), interestingly it is also the temperature profile of virtually every low-end espresso appliance. If you can get accurate temperature information and control the flow, a $200 appliance can provide similar results to a $6000 machine.

StoicDude wrote:Meh. Chasing extraction yields without a real input for taste, especially when taste preference is very subjective, is something I'm not interested in at all.

When extraction yields vary by less than 10% and people tey to portray it as a huge difference maker, it is hard for me to believe.

And as far as temperature, I would say that it is highly dependent on coffee too.

One coffee I tried tasted less bitter and dry when brewed at a lower temperature. Not sure how the extraction yield was, but considering it was a medium dark roasted coffee, it would make sense that a lower EY would taste better here.

Flavor and enjoyment/experience rule IMO. I'm happy to experiment, but I'm not interested in so much of the hoopla. I just want a delicious cup of espresso that is a pleasure to drink.

HBchris wrote: I guess what struck me in the article i initially referenced, was that it doesnt seem that it was examining turbo style shot ( 6 bar, coarser grinder 1 to 3 output in 15-20 sec)

But achieving the higher extraction by way of 7 bar, with long 15-30 sec pre-infusion (so i would assume finer grind, slayer style shot). Though i dont see a reference to shot time in the article (https://towardsdatascience.com/espresso ... 43a3c4044e)

Guess i like the idea of achieving the higher extraction with the longer/finer grind shot and a more conventional ratio to preserve some of the texture.
So was curious if anyone has any testing in this area, to confirm or counter the conclusion made in article.
As i thought that while the long contact time of an extended preinfuison helped with taming light roasts, it didnt really boost extraction%. But this articles seems to suggest that it gives a decent boost (at least when at 7 bars max pressure after the pre-infusion).

another interesting find from "The Real Sprometheus" on youtube
comparing 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 bar shots. Also seems to support the above article, and indicate 7 bars as the winner both in taste and extraction yield.

Just curious, if others who have tested ex confirmed the results above and found similar in terms of taste and EY.

If keeping dose, yield and shot time constant between 7 and 9 bar extraction.
For ex: 18 in 36 out (*adjust grind setting so that each pull in the same 30 sec)

The 7 bar will give a higher extraction yield compared to 8 or 9 bar?