Why is Artisan scope designer so painful to use?
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- Posts: 74
- Joined: 6 years ago
Maybe due to my ignorance, I have had hard time using the designer. The major issue is that I cannot seem to save the curve as profile and then make small change later. If I have some profile saved and want to change it later, I need to switch to the "Designer" mode and the curve will be decimated and re-interpolated to a degree that it is totally thrown off. And I have found the interpolation (some polynomial fitting instead of spline?) make RoR tuning extremely sensitive to small mouse change. It is very painful to use for me at this moment. So I would really appreciate some direction if I missed something.
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- Posts: 13
- Joined: 6 years ago
It's using the UnivariateSpline class from SciPy, so it's not simple interpolation. I agree that it's clunky to use, I usually have an ADSG file open in a text editor and change the numbers directly while loading over and over until I'm happy.dukeja wrote: I have found the interpolation (some polynomial fitting instead of spline?) make RoR tuning extremely sensitive to small mouse change.
- Almico
- Posts: 3612
- Joined: 10 years ago
I use designer to establish various DE, 1C and drops times and temps while still maintaining a straight and descending RoR curve. It gives me the main milestone times and temps.
Some points are roast dependent. On my roaster I get DE at 295 and 1C typically at 370*, so I can automatically program those in. The wildcard is TP, which is batch dependent. It helps to know what your roaster will do with various charges of coffee when warmed up and dropped at various temperatures.
If you don't know these things, then Designer is not going to help. Designer is a road map. You still need to know how to drive a car, how fast you can drive it and where.
After I get my milestones, I use the Designer plot as a background until I get a baseline roast that follows it well. I need to know what gas settings are needed to follow the theoretical curve with difference size batches.
Once I have that, there is no need to use the Designer curves. I use the actual roasts as my background because it includes my gas settings.
Little point in using a background if you're still just flying by the seat of your pants with settings.
Some points are roast dependent. On my roaster I get DE at 295 and 1C typically at 370*, so I can automatically program those in. The wildcard is TP, which is batch dependent. It helps to know what your roaster will do with various charges of coffee when warmed up and dropped at various temperatures.
If you don't know these things, then Designer is not going to help. Designer is a road map. You still need to know how to drive a car, how fast you can drive it and where.
After I get my milestones, I use the Designer plot as a background until I get a baseline roast that follows it well. I need to know what gas settings are needed to follow the theoretical curve with difference size batches.
Once I have that, there is no need to use the Designer curves. I use the actual roasts as my background because it includes my gas settings.
Little point in using a background if you're still just flying by the seat of your pants with settings.
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- Posts: 74
- Joined: 6 years ago
My workflow is to use one of my previous curve to know the capability and thermal capacity of my gear. Then design the milestones such as 1C and drop time. After reading Rao's book, I put more attention on the RoR curve derived from those milestone points.
I am stuck with Designer only because I don't have time to decode the data format used in Artisan yet. I would appreciate someone show me the link with published procedure to import data into Artisan. I am handy on making those curves (ET, BT, RoR) with several other software or my code. And it will be a lot more pleasant to use own tool to design those curves. And then I need to import that in.
I just feel odd that such simple task becoming so difficult in Artisan, so I thought I may ask to make sure that I didn't miss anything. Thanks a lot for all the replies!
I am stuck with Designer only because I don't have time to decode the data format used in Artisan yet. I would appreciate someone show me the link with published procedure to import data into Artisan. I am handy on making those curves (ET, BT, RoR) with several other software or my code. And it will be a lot more pleasant to use own tool to design those curves. And then I need to import that in.
I just feel odd that such simple task becoming so difficult in Artisan, so I thought I may ask to make sure that I didn't miss anything. Thanks a lot for all the replies!
- MaKoMo
- Posts: 850
- Joined: 16 years ago
You can save and load the points used by the designer via a the right-click menu. Note that Artisan is an open-source community project. If you have ideas on how to improve things, submit a PR.
LMWDP #360, https://artisan-scope.org
- Almico
- Posts: 3612
- Joined: 10 years ago
Moved: Thought it best this had it's own thread... Artisan Designer primer.