What's a light roast? - Page 16

#151: Post by **another_jim** » June 21st, 2019, 9:58 pm

I got a pair of Tim Wendelboe's Finca Tamana roasts, one Bourbon, one SL28, to see how different they are from US roasts billed 3rd wave.

They are quite different. At my ordinary cupping grind, they both cupped like tea: no body, no finish, minimal taste, great aromatics. This is typical of a roast that is dropped as it enters the first crack, and before it develops grassy and vinegary aromatics. I used to call these Bedouin roasts; but I guess they've been appropriated, and rechristened as Nordic roasts. I'll get some practice using my agtron meter on them this weekend.

In any case, the typical grassy/nasty taste US light roasts have when they are under-extracted does not apply to these. These roasts are simply not developed enough to ever get nasty. To get a more conventional coffee flavor, you need to grind them at espresso fineness to brew and Turkish to pull. The result is a light bodied, short finished brew, with mild acidity, a nice helping of baked goods Maillard flavors, and lots of sweetness. It is an inoffensive and very accessible style of coffee; even more so than the softest of Italian shots. The sweet spot is basically can't miss; since you cannot over-extract them, and they just taste weaker if you under-extract them.

It's coffee for tea drinkers.

June 21st, 2019, 11:54 pm

another_jim wrote:I got a pair of Tim Wendelboe's Finca Tamana roasts, one Bourbon, one SL28, to see how different they are from US roasts billed 3rd wave.

They are quite different. At my ordinary cupping grind, they both cupped like tea: no body, no finish, minimal taste, great aromatics. This is typical of a roast that is dropped as it enters the first crack, and before it develops grassy and vinegary aromatics. I used to call these Bedouin roasts; but I guess they've been appropriated, and rechristened as Nordic roasts.

It's coffee for tea drinkers.

Curious as to how you would define entering first crack? Tim has stated multiple times that they generally drop 40sec to around 1min into first crack depending on coffee or if its destination is espresso but usually rely on temperature more than anything especially since getting a Loring.

If the these super light roasts do not display any signs of underdevelopment why would they redevelop grass notes if left to caramelize a touch longer?

I understand the acid vinegar smells you speak of after sniffing many 1000s of trier samples, however i get this just at the cusp of 1st crack.

Cheers

#153: Post by **another_jim** » June 22nd, 2019, 12:36 am

I can't quite square what I see with what he states about his roasts. I've done quite a few Bedouin roasts, i.e. dropped just as the first crack begins; and if I were to reverse engineer the Finca Tamana roasts, that is what I would try.

However, I've never dropped a roast 40 seconds into the first crack. By that time, they are smelling vinegary, so I would be skeptical about their taste. On the other hand, when I first started roasting, Barry Jarrett told me that if I liked what I was smelling, I should wait 30 seconds before dropping the coffee. Maybe that works here too. In any case, I have no clue how different the beans would look or brew at the first crack versus 40 seconds later. The look, lightly caramel colored and wrinkled, and the taste, tea-like, says Bedouin roast; but there may be very little change in the appearance that in the next minute.

#154: Post by **Denis** » June 22nd, 2019, 4:51 am

What's the reason you call them Bedouin roasts? I can't think of any resemble.

And is your coffee espresso or filter roast? Tim roasts really medium for espresso, easy to pull, high solubility, so if you have espresso roast and find the roast light, then I wonder what coffee you consider normal roast, or medium roast that you drink daily.

June 24th, 2019, 10:27 am

another_jim wrote:I can't quite square what I see with what he states about his roasts. I've done quite a few Bedouin roasts, i.e. dropped just as the first crack begins;
...
In any case, I have no clue how different the beans would look or brew at the first crack versus 40 seconds later. The look, lightly caramel colored and wrinkled, and the taste, tea-like, says Bedouin roast; but there may be very little change in the appearance that in the next minute.

Very interesting! Which coffees work well at this level? I can definitely say I've never seen this recommended, but now I'm very interested to try it. Does this roast level work better by quickly reaching first crack or by drawing out drying/Maillard?

#156: Post by **dale_cooper** » June 24th, 2019, 1:56 pm

For what it's worth - I bought a bag of Wendelboe coffee 2 years ago. After being dissapointed, I reached out to Wendelboe coffee. Tim actually responded to me in great length and shared his roast curve - seriously, how awesome is that!? He has to be one of the most esteemed coffee professionals and not only took the time to speak with me about roasting, but shared that level of detail. I will always remember that gesture.

Back on topic: I will tell you that he is not dropping with no development. In fact, he said the beans are "cracking like crazy".

#157: Post by **another_jim** » June 24th, 2019, 2:57 pm

maccompatible wrote:Very interesting! Which coffees work well at this level? I can definitely say I've never seen this recommended, but now I'm very interested to try it. Does this roast level work better by quickly reaching first crack or by drawing out drying/Maillard?

I usually do the Maillard in 3 minutes, but for these, I drop the ET as the beans go yellow and spend around 4 minutes. However, I do these roasts only rarely, when I have a coffee whose aroma I like, but whose taste I don't. So the profile is not fine tuned.

#158: Post by **Denis** » June 24th, 2019, 4:39 pm

dale_cooper wrote:For what it's worth - I bought a bag of Wendelboe coffee 2 years ago. After being dissapointed, I reached out to Wendelboe coffee. Tim actually responded to me in great length and shared his roast curve - seriously, how awesome is that!? He has to be one of the most esteemed coffee professionals and not only took the time to speak with me about roasting, but shared that level of detail. I will always remember that gesture.

Back on topic: I will tell you that he is not dropping with no development. In fact, he said the beans are "cracking like crazy".

Can you tell me/us why you have been disappointed?

June 24th, 2019, 4:55 pm

I could never get a proper extraction out of it - it always seemed to be underextracting, which is why I thought it was an underdeveloped roast. The 2nd bag he sent me was better than the first, and had great aroma, but I could never get a more round cup; acidity was dominant. Granted this was 2 years ago.

#160: Post by **Denis** » June 24th, 2019, 5:02 pm

Kenya? as he loves them. Did you try a different brewing recipe? I tend to try v60/cupping when I see its not good in espresso, or not pleasant.

Since I got my refractometer things are a lot clearer now, I had some 10 days coffee from UK roasters (I don't want to give names) and fine grind (almost espresso) with 95 C water in 10-15 mins extracts in "cupping" maximum 15-16 % EY. Coffee, smells, tastes bad, crop is late 2018, roast is 11 June, roaster is Loring.

Can it be that you got a batch after they changed from Probat to Loring? I have some roasters and when they have new coffee they sell it reduced price as Experimental, or coffee in progress. Its not bad at all, its just not full potential.

BTW, regarding Tim, in his last coffee subscription video (posted today) he is announcing he just got a Ethiopia Natural, after 6 years of no naturals in his shop. Maybe I should give it a try.