Un-Cracked (AKA 0% developed) Roasts. Anyone? - Page 4

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
Aguirre

Postby Aguirre » Jan 11, 2019, 10:44 am

Denis wrote:I am glad more people are joining this thread. I am curious about some light coffee from the States. Can anyone post 1-2 pictures maybe? If it roasted by you what variety and how much weight loss?

I don't want to transform this topic into a versus, this is not my intention. I am just curious where light coffee/3rd wave is going.

Yes, the picture and the color of the bean don't tell you how roasted a coffee it is. Outside it can look pretty damn roasted and inside is so hard you cannot break it with your teeth.


And I'll add to that that the color you see in a picture is not also the "real" color. Or maybe it will be better to add that the color you see in a picture is different than the one you see with the naked eye. So coffee pictures have a very very very limited practical use.

Anyway, just for curiosity, I'm posting here a picture of one of my roasts. I don't usually take pictures of my roasted coffee and this one was taken about a year ago. It's a Guatemalan Bourbon, 17% developed, 13.5% weight loss. This, for my standards, is more on the darker side of my roasts. I usually go lighter. The roast chart is also here.

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Aguirre

Postby Aguirre » Jan 11, 2019, 11:08 am

Denis wrote:Thanks, I am not interested in roasting, not now nor in the future. I am going to Vienna Coffee Festival, I got the thickets already.

Why? The answer is simple. I do not have the space for it, I don't want to rent a space. When I do something I try to go all in, no half measures.

I have tried roasting for 1 year. The main problem was you will never get top quality green beans, fresh, like top suppliers/roasters will do. That means that you will never get the quality they do overall. So roasting takes a lot of time, practice, quality green coffee, and for me I wont accept to drink medium roasted coffee on top tech machines (grinder, espresso machine), just because it is satisfying to roast at home. There are to many parameters you cannot control at home (humidity, temperature of the beans when you load them, ambient temperature) correlated with sometimes medium-dry green beans gets you to frustration in therms of taste. And this is not everything, you dont have control on the beans you are buying, you just buy and try. The green coffee for the aroma to stay inside the bean for a long period, they need to be dried slowly (14-30days) not in the direct sun but in the shadow. So again, you are buying green coffee but without trying you dont know what it is.


I dont drink coffee because of the social thing, or because it wakes me up. For me it is all about the taste.


I constructively disagree with a lot of what you're saying here. Let me break it down:

Denis wrote:The main problem was you will never get top quality green beans, fresh, like top suppliers/roasters will do.

I believe this is incorrect. There are many ways of getting high quality beans. Take a look for example at Sweet Maria's and Bodhi Leaf offerings. They provide very comprehensive info about the green beans they sell, and very often you'll find some real gems - that of course will come at a price. I have on few occasions bought Gesha greens from Central America with SCAA cupping score above 94pt (I know, the score by itself doesn't say all, but this is just to show you high quality beans ARE actually available)
You can always as well become part of a greens buying club
There's also the Crown Jewels, accessible to mere mortals like you and me. Take a look at the offerings and let me know if you still think the same way:

https://www.sweetmarias.com
https://www.bodhileafcoffee.com/
https://royalcoffee.com/product-category/crown-jewels/

Denis wrote:...for me I wont accept to drink medium roasted coffee on top tech machines (grinder, espresso machine), just because it is satisfying to roast at home.


Yeah... I don't accept it either. Honestly, my own roasted coffee has only one disadvantage when I compare it against the top roasters: batch size. I can only roast 1lb at a time. Other than that, I have total control over all the variables and have been consistently happy with the quality I've achieved at home.
Maybe here I'd like to ask you a question: Do you consider Tim Wendelboe a top-league roaster? I do. And I have bought his roasted coffee on several occasions. It's really good, but it's no different in terms of quality than what I'm currently doing at home.

Denis wrote:There are to many parameters you cannot control at home (humidity, temperature of the beans when you load them, ambient temperature) correlated with sometimes medium-dry green beans gets you to frustration in therms of taste.


Again I disagree. For home roasters that roast indoors - such as I do - If you have a smart thermostat and a whole-house humidifier (both of which are not at all uncommon), then you have a pretty stable temperature and humidity condition.

Marcelnl

Postby Marcelnl » Jan 11, 2019, 11:57 am

getting good greens can be difficult in Austria, who knows. I do know that Germany has some good distributors so it's not impossible.

I too disagree that it is not feasible to get good quality, I started very very low tech and while consistency was troubled my results were pretty good to great and could be compaired to whatever quality roasted beans I can buy. Now with the Huky consistency is not an issue, some more tinkering and exploring to do but the result again is quite good from start. To each his own of course, if sourcing good roasted beans is doable and you decide against home roasting for whatever reason that is your approach.
LMWDP #483

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Denis

Postby Denis » Jan 11, 2019, 3:55 pm

edit: happy roasting.

max

Postby max » Jan 11, 2019, 5:03 pm

pngboy wrote:I've lived in the US
...
Off the top of my head Roasters over hear in Europe that do a progressive " light Nordic roast" and do it well are Tim Wendelboe, La Cabra, Morgon Coffee Roasters, The Barn.


I have yet to try Morgon, but the rest are probably my favorites (+ Drop Coffee). Do you know of any US alternatives with similar profiles? I'm currently getting TW by post, but it would be fun to try something "local".

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Denis

Postby Denis » Jan 11, 2019, 5:21 pm

Try these if you have any chance in Europe:
DaMatteo- Sweden - Roaster Loring
Kaffa- Finland.- Roaster Probat (different profile with straight ROR)
Tim Wendelboe Norway - Roaster Loring
April- Patrick Rolf- Danemark- Roaster Loring
Leuchtfeuer - Germany - Roaster Loring
JB- Germany - Roaster Probat
Bob Coffee Lab- Romania. - Roaster Giesen.
HAYB- Poland- Roaster Giesen.

Tim is on the balance side, he will always sacrifice some notes of flavors in order to get more sweetness. For my personal taste I do not like that. He is doing so to ease the extraction. Easy to extract coffee=happy people.

If you buy from them, ask for filter coffee/omniroast. BTW April is sending free delivery worldwide if you order minimum 2 bags of 250g. This is a chance to try without paying alot for shipping.

max

Postby max » Jan 11, 2019, 5:54 pm

Thanks; that's a great list. I have never had the bottom 4. I'm looking forward to trying them at some point.

My best espresso every (by a margin) I had at Kaffa's café in Helsinki almost precisely two years ago. Good memory!

I'm currently getting TW because the price/performance is great: $14 per 250g to my door... and also since I used to pass by the café in Oslo every summer, so there are some good memories involved. I have only ever had the filter roast from TW.

Free shipping on 2 bags is also nice. Will check it out!

pngboy

Postby pngboy » Jan 11, 2019, 6:14 pm

max wrote:I have yet to try Morgon, but the rest are probably my favorites (+ Drop Coffee). Do you know of any US alternatives with similar profiles? I'm currently getting TW by post, but it would be fun to try something "local".


My favorite US roaster is probably JBC because they have always been consistent over the 7-8 years I've ordered from them. They usually range from light to medium but always well balanced. They usually find the sweet spot.

Aguirre

Postby Aguirre » replying to pngboy » Jan 11, 2019, 6:36 pm

Have you tried Heart (Portland)?

eltakeiteasy

Postby eltakeiteasy » Jan 12, 2019, 8:58 pm

I have been experimenting with cutting one or two of the beans open after each roast to see how the inside looks. I have been surprised by the correlation between how the bean looks and how it tastes in the cup.

Here's an example:

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