Un-Cracked (AKA 0% developed) Roasts. Anyone? - Page 2

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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Almico

Postby Almico » Jan 10, 2019, 1:42 pm

Denis wrote:This helps you? Maybe order some coffee from these roasters and see how it is (let it sit for 10 days before trying).

If you search nordic roaster competition then you will find the guys I am talking about.

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It doesn't really make sense that FC was at 9:02. That would to be about 205*C.

FC should be more around 193*C which would make it about a 2:00 development time.

Aguirre

Postby Aguirre » replying to Almico » Jan 10, 2019, 2:50 pm

But that really depends on the BT probe location, right?

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Just by looking at this plot, I can see a slight crash in the ROR and my guess would be that FC really started at around 8:30. But that's just a guess, the roastmaster's ears should know better :-)

Aguirre

Postby Aguirre » Jan 10, 2019, 2:54 pm

[creative nickname] wrote:Check out this thread for a discussion of what you can get when you drop coffee before first cracks begin. It isn't what you might expect!

Thoughts on Arabic (Gulf) coffee?


Very interesting. I'm really curious about the taste of this. Thanks for sharing!

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EvergreenBuzzBuzz

Postby EvergreenBuzzBuzz » Jan 10, 2019, 4:20 pm

Almico wrote:It doesn't really make sense that FC was at 9:02. That would to be about 205*C.

FC should be more around 193*C which would make it about a 2:00 development time.


Alan and others, Your comment makes me wonder without having other curves shown and not knowing the machine. In order to know development time one needs to know when FC really happened. In a recent blog post Rao says you have to look at the dip in the Delta ET curve.

Has anyone gone back to their roasts and looked at the Delta ET dip. I just did and results tell me that his stated exception applies because I use the gas dip method "Some exceptions to this would be if the operator had decreased the gas shortly before the ET ROR troughed, FC began in a prolonged, erratic manner (as may happen with some coffees), or some decafs and naturals that crack gently or erratically."

Anyone else that doesn't see how determining FC would impact their DTR etc. BTW you can change FC and still save your original roast by choosing discard at exit.

Thanks
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Aguirre

Postby Aguirre » replying to EvergreenBuzzBuzz » Jan 10, 2019, 4:40 pm

interesting, I just went and took a look at a few of my roasts and didn't notice any dip in the ET ROR. I have a Huky though and I'm not surprised it behaves a lot different than the big boys Rao deals with.

I'd guess the volume and mass of air/gas/vapor released during FC from such a small bean mass is not sufficient to cause a dramatic variation in my ET probe

Denis

Postby Denis » Jan 10, 2019, 4:41 pm

There are many methods and the roasts are different from a roaster to another.

People kill the gas more or less than for 10-15 sec during FC or right before. Light coffee is roasted different from normal. For more aromas you start with the lowest temp possible, and you kill the gas in the FC. FC is not so violent as in normal/traditional roast. And as you can see not all the beans are cracked, look at the surface.

As far as light coffee, you can make great espresso with it, but it takes a lot of sacrifice (money +time + practice). This is not better this is just different.


Some photos of really light roasts on unimodal burrs, with flow/pressure control and long shots.

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The last photo is a comparison between full city+ (almost Italian roast) , normal espresso roast and then light roast. This is made in the same light so this is better to compare. It is not the same coffee variety.

Image

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EvergreenBuzzBuzz

Postby EvergreenBuzzBuzz » Jan 10, 2019, 5:38 pm

Denis wrote:There are many methods and the roasts are different from a roaster to another.

People kill the gas more or less than for 10-15 sec during FC or right before. Light coffee is roasted different from normal. For more aromas you start with the lowest temp possible, and you kill the gas in the FC. FC is not so violent as in normal/traditional roast. And as you can see not all the beans are cracked, look at the surface.


@Denis, do you have any profiles you can post, or if not and you were writing down a roast profile what would it be. I am interested to try this and see what comes of it.

Also any recommendations on a coffee to start with.

I need to place an order at www.sweetmarias.com for some decaf so if you see anything there.

Thanks so much, Michael
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pngboy

Postby pngboy » Jan 10, 2019, 6:27 pm

I've lived in the US and Europe and as far as central Europe is concerned I feel they are a couple years behind the US, Scandinavia and Australia when it comes to roasting. I love light roasted coffee but A great majority of the shops I go to roast way to light! But more because its a fad and they don't quite know how to develop a light profile yet. So I'm sure this will change. Instead of having there own roasting style it seems every other new roaster is just trying to jump on the Nordic bandwagon .

Most good light roasts I've had over here have been very sufficiently developed Like a 9-11 min roast but dropped light. Off the top of my head Roasters over hear in Europe that do a progressive " light Nordic roast" and do it well are Tim Wendelboe, La Cabra, Morgon Coffee Roasters, The Barn.

But I've never seen Un-cracked , just light or nasty light

baldheadracing

Postby baldheadracing » Jan 10, 2019, 6:29 pm

I've had un-cracked coffee once. I ordered a light roast from a farm, and the coffee had not hit first crack.

I know, because after a few cups, I ended up re-roasting the coffee into and through first crack.

It's something completely different. I suspect if one approaches it that way, then it'll be a good experience. Myself, I was expecting a cupping roast, so it was a bit of a shock :shock: .

If one wants to try it out, then on your next roast, pull out an ounce with the tryer just before 1C ...
What I'm interested in is my worst espresso being fantastic - James Hoffmann

dale_cooper

Postby dale_cooper » Jan 10, 2019, 8:29 pm

Denis wrote:And as you can see not all the beans are cracked, look at the surface.




I still don't know what you mean, what am I looking at ... on the surface? Bean expansion? A bean can surely hit first crack but not be expanded like other beans... hence my admittedly snarky questioning.

What machine do you roast on?


edit: Aguirre already said it but I think most people in this thread and on this forum roast like what you're talking about. Many of us roast certain beans which are dropped before first crack fully completes (beans are still popping when they're coming out the door).