A solid, catch-all, Hottop espresso roast profile? - Page 2

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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coffee.me

#11: Post by coffee.me » Aug 29, 2008, 9:02 am

It could be just me, but after 12H rest, this generic Brazil Santos roasted using the following profile was too sweet in a cappuccino. When I say sweet, I mean like sugar or more like an artificial sweetner; go figure!

Here's profile#3, same objective as #2 but better managed.
Image
225g coffee beans
time = logging starts from 24:30 and ends at ~12:10
beans dropped at 24:30.
total roasting time = 12:20
First crack period is highlighted in gray.
Second crack just started at ~12:10, beans dumped.

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blowery

#12: Post by blowery » Aug 29, 2008, 2:04 pm

Just curious, but what are you making your graphs with? Excel?

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coffee.me

#13: Post by coffee.me » Aug 31, 2008, 1:19 pm

Yes, MS Excel.

BTW, my next roast will be some SM Monkey roasted using my last profile (profile#3), anyone interested?

Bob_M

#14: Post by Bob_M » Aug 31, 2008, 3:10 pm

yes i am interested...i'm doing some experimenting of my own and will report back when i have something

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coffee.me

#15: Post by coffee.me » Sep 03, 2008, 9:45 pm

OK, I used profile#3 above as is on some SM Monkey but things didn't work out as planned so I had to tweak that profile a bit. Here's profile#4 with SM Monkey:

Image
225g coffee beans
time = logging starts from 25:00 and ends at ~12:30
beans dropped at 24:30.
total roasting time = 12:00.
First crack period is highlighted in gray.
Second crack just started at ~12:30, beans dumped.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that my "solid, catch-all, Hottop espresso roast profile" is not going to be a program I save in one of the 3 memory cells, but rather a roast plan I implement, hands on, while roasting using the temp readings from the bean temp TC. This profile#4 is the implementation of that plan for 225g of SM Monkey.

Here's my latest "solid, catch-all, Hottop espresso roast plan":
Drop the beans @ 24:30, fan @ 4, power @ 3
@24:00, fan @ 1, power @ 10
@300F BT, fan @ 0, power @ 10
@370F BT, fan @ 0, power @ 3
@415F BT, fan @ 0, power @ 6
@ first snaps of second (~435F BT) end roast.

I haven't tasted the outcome yet, but will try to update this thread if I manage a good enough shot to base my assessment on :oops: .

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blowery

#16: Post by blowery » Sep 06, 2008, 8:56 pm

So how'd it turn out?

I don't know if you've got more power than me or if it's just the difference in our bean mass, but I've been roasting SM's Moka Kadir in around 17mins, to the beginning of rolling second. 12mins for 225g is rather interesting.. I might have to try dropping my bean mass a bit to see how it tastes or if I can dupe it.

Here's my latest:
Image

Javacat

#17: Post by Javacat » Sep 08, 2008, 1:06 pm

Max, how did the revised profile for the Monkey blend turn out? I am fairly new to the Hoptop club as well and hear so many differences in users profiles that Its hard to believe were all talking about the same roaster. I recently roasted up some Monkey, but came out with some disappointing results. It was very "flat" tasting. I believe that I'm possibly using too much heat in the middle leg of the roast. Your profile looks a lot like mine. Are you reaching 1st crack @ 8 minutes? Normally I reach 1st @ 10 - 11 min. with a 250g load.

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coffee.me

#18: Post by coffee.me » Sep 08, 2008, 2:25 pm

Sorry guys, I haven't reported on the Monkey+profile#4 roast sooner. Truth is, I didn't have much to report on! The taste wasn't bad at all; but that's it, I can't think of anything special about it. It could be my barista skills, though :oops: Is that what they call "flat"? It didn't taste "flat" at all to me, more like "undefined", but what do I know :oops:

Javacat wrote:Are you reaching 1st crack @ 8 minutes? Normally I reach 1st @ 10 - 11 min. with a 250g load.
Javacat wrote:Its hard to believe were all talking about the same roaster.
blowery wrote:I don't know if you've got more power than me
Yup 1st starts @ ~8min. Please note that I start with a cold HT, do exactly 225g, my voltmeter says supply is ~130.5v and my back filter is colored but not dirty. Again, I'm no expert, but it appears these parameters matter with the HT.

I wish a guru could join in and guide us through this generic profile stuff. All my roasts above were not bad but I can't tell if there were just OK or exceptional (how about that artificial-sweetner-tasting Santos+profiles#3 roast!). I can volunteer the graphs, a lot of Brazil Santos and very little SM Monkey :D

Frost

#19: Post by Frost » Sep 08, 2008, 7:25 pm

Thanks Max for posting all these nice graphs on the Hottop. I'm no expert and have zero experience in the Hottop, but interested as I may eventually get one, ...and probe it.
You mentioned voltage as 130V, then noticed your location EU, (is that 230V?) So that may explain your faster ramps than US versions. Do you know what the heater wattage spec is for your unit?

A couple things (but I'm sure a Hottop user would be more help to you here!) As you drop the power during first crack, the later graphs show a dip in environment temp: you might bump up the heat just a but during that leg to keep it from sagging: flat or slow rising would be better. 8 minutes to first crack is good time and the rate of rise during the bulk heating ramp is good. Not sure there is room for 'improvement' in that part. You might bump up the pre-heat a bit to speed up the initial drying. Your taste impressions are most important! If it's 'flat and boring', I would suggest to shorten the finish from start of first crack to dump a bit. You are running about 4 minutes here (monkey) so try 3 or 3.5 minutes and to the same finish temp. (or, per my personal taste, try stopping the roast before start of second crack.) Again, I really like how you have made those graphs! Thanks, keep posting on this, and good luck.

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coffee.me

#20: Post by coffee.me » Sep 08, 2008, 8:59 pm

Frost wrote:I'm no expert
Hello Gary. I have to disagree, that's not the impression I get from reading your roasting posts on CG!

Frost wrote:the later graphs show a dip in environment temp: you might bump up the heat just a but during that leg to keep it from sagging: flat or slow rising would be better.
Frost wrote:If it's 'flat and boring', I would suggest to shorten the finish from start of first crack to dump a bit. You are running about 4 minutes here (monkey) so try 3 or 3.5 minutes and to the same finish temp.
Nice! I was hoping someone would come and say this! I'll try to implement this in my next roast, I'll do some Brazil first (since I have so much) to learn how to manage the temp, then I'll do some SM Monkey.

New plan based on Frost's advice (changes in bold):
Drop the beans @ 24:30, fan @ 4, power @ 3
@24:00, fan @ 1, power @ 10
@300F BT, fan @ 0, power @ 10
@380F BT, fan @ 0, power @ 4 (or maybe 5 based on env temp)
@415F BT, fan @ 0, power @ 6
@ first snaps of second (~435F BT) end roast.
Frost wrote:You might bump up the pre-heat a bit to speed up the initial drying.
As is, drying (upto 300F BT) takes around 4:30 minutes. My understanding (probably something Jim wrote) is that too short here and you get bad, grassy, tastes; but too long will make the beans loose most of the moisture required for later stages. What should I shoot for? Is 3:30 minutes ideal?
Frost wrote:You mentioned voltage as 130V, then noticed your loacation EU, (is that 230V?) So that may explain your faster ramps than US versions. Do you know what the heater wattage spec is for your unit?
I got mine from the US, so it's the regular US version (110v/60Hz). I think you're right, most of the EU is 220,230,240/50Hz but I have access to both 220/50 and 110/60 :D All in all, more options and power is better....I just feel bad for the other HToppers who can't match my profiles :?