Roasting for Turkish/Greek style coffee?

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
Bill2

#1: Post by Bill2 »

I have a work colleague, of Greek background, who I was intending to roast some coffee for. He prefers a light Greek style coffee, which is apparently a lighter roast than Turkish, which he prepares by boiling on the stove, much like how Turkish coffee is prepared. He brought me a sample of what he currently drinks, and it is indeed a very light roast - caramel in colour. I'd assume to be this light that it would be roasted no further than the end of first crack, maybe even less than that.

Does anyone here know what beans or blends are used for (or could be used to reproduce) a traditional Greek style coffee? What beans would work best at this light roast level? Should I use wet or dry processed beans? And any other roasting tips to suit this light roast style, and brewing method?

thanks,
Bill

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Kaffee Bitte

#2: Post by Kaffee Bitte »

I would be willing to bet that the roast level you are talking about is a cinnamon or maybe a Half-City. Very light indeed. I have only done a few roasts to these levels so I can't really offer any tips on the roast.

I can however give some tips on the coffees to use. My impression about coffee roasted for turkish/arabic/greek coffee is that the preferred coffees are Ethiopian or Yemens. Really though it should be possible to create a good cup for this gentleman with other coffees. Aim for coffees that you enjoy in a lighter roast.

I would also assume that this gentleman will be adding sugar and spices to the coffee. You should ask him what spices he would normally use in the coffee. This might help you choose a coffee that will pair well with them.
Lynn G.
LMWDP # 110
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kahvedelisi

#3: Post by kahvedelisi »

there's not a specific roast level for Turkish coffee and I believe there shouldn't be. But here in Turkiye roasters generally prefer 2 types of roast.

a) as soon as first crack starts you stop roasting (and most people claim that's genuine Turkish Coffee)
b) you keep roasting even after second crack ends which is dark french roast (and they call it double roasted)

If we are to talk about "real traditional" then we have to go back to 15th-16th century. At those times coffee from Yemen roasted with long armed small sized iron plates, instantly roasted (dark), ground and brewed per serving. Roasting degree was an excuse for Sheikhulislam, cos this beverage was causing more problems than they predicted. Coffee was the reason people gathered in coffee houses, drinking, chatting about things "they shouldn't" including political and rebellious discussions against sultan etc. So Sheikhulislam (with the permission of Sultan) made a statement saying "any kind of food, roasted to degree of coal is prohibited by islam" by this statement the next day all coffee sacks from Yemen poured into bosphorus, which resulted in 22 years of coffee banishment :) But eventually people found an excuse for Sheikhulislam's statement, they started roasting lighter ;)

If we are to talk about last 100-150 years of Turkish Coffee and if we should take that era as our basis then we have to refer to Kuru Kahveci Mehmet Efendi, who turned coffee selling into a huge business. KKME absolutely changed almost everything about turkish coffee, including roasting style and grinding by selling pre-roasted and pre-ground. Till that time people used to roast and grind on their own, mainly mortar&pestle and centrifugal mills used accompanied with fine sieve for sifting coarser grinds which not suitable for turkish coffee (greek coffee story related to that fact actually)... then came wooden mills followed by brass hand mills. Through the end of the first World War and after some 50 more years many other things changed "again". KKME did some clever moves and used the embargo and political issues to their benefit, also coffee from yemen cost too much, they started importing coffee from Brasil and soon became a monopoly. Result? Now in Turkiye we are drinking genuine GARBAGE from Brasil (Rio Minas Grade 4 to be more precise).

The only difference between greek and Turkish, coffee used for Turkish coffee is a little coarser (just a little). So.. do as you wish.. Turkish or Greek or Bosnian or Arabian Coffee.. they are all just "brewing styles" nothing more, you can use whatever roast degree you want, all beans from all origins, even blends, be creative. There's no tradition fradition mradition into it. If we were to go back to roots then we would be measuring by hand and eye, roasting to charcoal degree, using small plates for roasting, grind between 2 stones, brewing over hot embers and consuming at that instant, no drums or poppers, no degassing, no electric, no gas stove etc. Rituals change. Even today with needs changing and demands increasing from coffee consumers, electric and electronic Turkish coffee brewers are on market, god knows what will happen in 10 years time or 20 or 30. Traditional my (_._) IMHO nothing more than a marketing word.

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chelya

#4: Post by chelya »

Wow, kahvedelisi, I was very impressed and puzzled about your insights until I spotted your location in the profile. It was a very interesting read. Thank you.

I can't offer tips on roasting, but I frequently make Turkish coffee. No spices. Pure. I do add sugar into the cup when coffee is done brewing. I prefer lighter coffee done for french press. No preference in terms of beans geography. I also noticed that I prefer single origin, not blends.

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Kuban111

#5: Post by Kuban111 »

kahvedelisi,

Wow I just read this, great bit of history there kahvedelisi thanks for the history lesson.

The origin of the bean and the type of roast style from different culture and countries have always fascinated me. I'm more of a history geek and less of a scientist geek.

So here's my story, from time to time the wife & I visit a local Greek restaurant and I always order the Greek coffee.
Being the coffee geek that I am, I've tried to reproduce the experience at home. I haven't roasted coffee for this type of coffee but know with this info I'll be better inform to try it.

My question is in regards to the pre ground brands that normally are sold for Greek coffee.
Is it a normal practice that some of these brands might include spices already in the blend?

I'm sorry I don't know the name of the brand, :oops: but the specific brand that I buy the bag is green with a parrot logo.
To me I notice some kind of spicy aroma....when I brew it at home.

Just thinking if I try to roast and grind like the above post mentions is that it or do I need to add anything else to the blend.


Thank You.

Michael.
"azuca, azuca" Celia Cruz

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chelya

#6: Post by chelya »

Kuban111, what restaurant are you talking about? Is coffee good there? (I am 5 min from you - see my pm)

Pre-ground off the shelf coffee is evil, stale and terrible regardless of the spices :)
I can't believe that you roast yourself and buy pre-ground at the same time...

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Kuban111

#7: Post by Kuban111 »

Man just got called out on H-B... :oops:

Please don't take away my secret decoder badges

http://www.radioarchives.org/annie/


Disclaimer: I could assure you that it was only for the soul purpose of science that I bought it.
:P

Got to take one for the team sometimes....



Pithari in highland park.
"azuca, azuca" Celia Cruz

Bill2

#8: Post by Bill2 »

Kaffee Bitte: Yes, cinnamon is probably close to the roast level. I compared the ground coffee he provided me with some ground cinnamon and it's of similar color, but just slightly darker than the cinnamon.

Ethiopian and/or Yemen sounds like it may be the best, most "traditional" option, however I usually prefer these beans roasted relatively dark. My understanding is that Yemen and Ethiopian beans are fairly hard beans and require a longer roast to get roasted right through to the middle of the bean. If this is so (and correct me if I'm wrong), but wouldn't a lighter, quicker roast to just in to 1st crack produce beans that are still half raw in the middle? Or should they be roasted more slowly to 1st crack than usual to ensure they're fully roasted through at this roast depth? Would lower altitude grown, softer beans, work better at this light roast depth?

Yes, he adds sugar to his coffee, but not spices.

kahvedelisi: Thanks for your detailed reply. Ok, I understand now that there is no such thing as "real traditional", but wanted to know what beans would produce the best result roasted to your type "a" roast, ie. lighter roast to first crack, and which would produce a similar style of coffee to what this person would be used to drinking.


thanks,
Bill

Abe Carmeli
Team HB

#9: Post by Abe Carmeli »

Kuban111 wrote:kahvedelisi,

My question is in regards to the pre ground brands that normally are sold for Greek coffee.
Is it a normal practice that some of these brands might include spices already in the blend?

Thank You.

Michael.
The spice is cardamom. It is better to add it fresh when you brew it. Break 4 cardamon pods and notice black small seeds in there. Use those seeds, no need to grind them. Bedouins often will just crack the pod and throw it in with the seeds after the coffee boiled, they let it soak for a minute and then serve it.
Abe Carmeli

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Kuban111

#10: Post by Kuban111 »

Gabe,



The spice is cardamom.
Cardamomo, ahh Yes I know it very well so that's it ahhhhh :D

Hey thanks for the info & tip will have to try it.




Michael.
"azuca, azuca" Celia Cruz