Roast and Learn Together - January 2015

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
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TomC
Team HB

Postby TomC » Dec 26, 2014, 3:13 pm

Mark([creative-nickname]) has stepped up to lead the January Roast and Learn Together. He's chosen the a consistently good coffee from Klatch, the fresh crop Gedeo Worka. Welcome Mark, and let's all look forward to a great new year of roasting.

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johnny4lsu

Postby johnny4lsu » Jan 01, 2015, 7:15 pm

Roasted some last night.. My graph went crazy so I don't have much to share.. Will give it a go tomorrow

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[creative nickname]

Postby [creative nickname] » Jan 01, 2015, 11:02 pm

Hello everybody! I'm excited to be organizing another R&L thread. I don't have any particular plans for this month, aside from getting as many people as possible to share their thoughts and experiences as they try to get the most out of an excellent dry-process coffee. I'll start by posting a brew profile, and soon I plan to share an espresso profile as well. If anyone has any particular things they'd like us to explore, feel free to chime in to the thread or to send me a PM.

Also, I'd love to facilitate a swap for any members who'd like to see how other people's profiles taste when brewed. I've learned a lot from doing this in the past, and I would be thrilled to get a good number of people involved this time. So if you are interested, let me know!
LMWDP #435

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[creative nickname]

Postby [creative nickname] » Jan 01, 2015, 11:37 pm

Here's some information regarding my first roast, which was intended for brewing. It went pretty much as intended, and I was excited to see how it tastes, so I did an early cupping, which is posted below. If it changes dramatically as it ages, I'll post back with that info as well.

Roasting Info:

Bean: Ethiopia Gedeo Worka FTO - DP
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Charge Mass: 400 g
Charge Temp: 300F
Dry/Ramp/Development: 5:30/3:30/2:15
FC-start temp: 376F
Finish Temp: 402F
Overall Roast Time: 11:08
Moisture Loss: 15%

Profile Plot:

Image

[BT=Red, Exhaust=Green, Gas=Blue, Fan=Yellow]

Cupping Notes:

Rest: 1 day
Brewer: Cupping bowl
Grinder: Lido 2, 1 full turn + four notches
Water: 150mL, 200F
Coffee: 8.25g

Dry Fragrance: Ripe blueberries, sandalwood, toasted walnut, dark chocolate, floral

Wet Aroma: Chocolate cake, raspberry/blueberry

Warm taste: Sweet, powerful blueberry/blackberry/cherry acidity, black tea flavors and body, slightly drying aftertaste.

Cool cup: Like a sweet berry tea. Vibrant and juicy, still light bodied, and drying in the finish.

Overall Impression:This coffee has a wonderful aroma and flavor, offering lots of the classic berry acidity and sweetness that one looks for in a dry-processed Ethiopian. My first roast was light bodied and had a drying finish; I'm interested to see if that improves with rest. If not, I'll plan to do a bit more development in my next brewing roast to try and develop a bit more balance. Regardless, this was a striking cup and I look forward to drinking lots more of it this month.

---

Updated to add: I pulled a shot of this on my Caferina this morning -- 16g in, 27g out, at a tight grind and a high temperature. I gave it about five minutes rest to mitigate the gassiness from pulling this soon after roasting. The result certainly wouldn't be for everyone -- light bodied with extremely vivid blueberry & blackberry notes --- but it was a memorable shot nonetheless. Given how good it tasted as a shot as a brewing-focused city roast, I'm really looking forward to doing a roast focused specifically on maximizing what this is capable of as an SO espresso.

And one more update: The drying sensation I noted in my first cupping has, happily, been fading with age. My cup today was still slightly less sweet in the aftertaste than in the initial taste, but not so much that I found it objectionable. This is a good reminder for me that cupping too soon can be misleading!
LMWDP #435

Goldensncoffee

Postby Goldensncoffee » Jan 03, 2015, 3:48 pm

First off thank you Mark for organizing this months RLT. Heres my first shot at this bean on my new Quest M3.

Roast #1

Bean: Ethiopia Gedeo Worka FTO-DP
Roaster: Quest M3
Charge: 150g
Charge Temp: 350F (on bean probe) MET 410 at charge
Dry/ Ramp/ Development: 5:55/5:00/2:02 (I was trying Marks profile but I didn't ramp fast enough)
Total Roast Time: 12:59
Finsh Temp: 408F
Moisture Loss: 14.%

Profile Plot:

Image



Roast#2

Bean: Ethiopia Gedeo Worka FTO-DP
Roaster: Quest M3
Charge: 150g
Charge Temp: 355F/ MET 420. (I tried to get through drying 20 secs faster but it didn't change)
Dry/ Ramp/ Development: 5:55/4:04/2:21
Total Roast Time: 12:22
Finish Temp: 409F
Moisture Loss: 14%

Profile Plot:

Image

Cupping Notes:

Rest: 20 Hours after roasting
Brewer: Coffee Cup
Grinder: Breville Smart
Water: 170g
Coffee: 10g

Dry Fragrance: Berries and chocolate (It smells incredible!)

I cupped both of these roasts side by side (blind so I didn't know which was which). Roast 2 was by far the winner. It was incredibly sweet with some complex berries. Not incredibly bright but just enough acidity. A very balanced cup. As the cup cooled the fruits just pop. I would describe the cool cup exactly as you have. I'm not getting any drying aftertaste. This could be because it's not there or my palate is not trained enough to detect something like this.
I can't wait to try this in the V60 in a day or two.

I have a couple questions: In general, does a longer (say 5-6min compared to a 4 min) drying phase increase sweetness? Is there certain beans that do better with a longer dry/shorter dry? Why a longer dry for a Dry-processed bean?
It seems the shorter ramp in R2 really let this bean shine. I think I will try to get the ramp a little faster on the next roast. Anything else you all would recommend I try by looking at my graph? I know it's whats in the cup thats important but I'll take any advice you can give me.

***UPDATE 1/4***

Brewed in V60 this am using 42g/600mL / Water 204F

Still getting a lot of the complex berries. I think the V60 may have let a little more body through as the mouthfeel changed slightly. I was also getting very slight chocolate notes. For some reason, as the cup really cooled I wasn't getting the wild fruity tea pop. Still plenty fruity but not as intense as when cupped.

Thank you Mark, and Tom for sharing your knowledge with me. The Chris Schooley article was a great read.

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[creative nickname]

Postby [creative nickname] » Jan 03, 2015, 5:08 pm

Thanks for sharing your info, Jay! It sounds like that second profile is working really well for you. As to your questions:

Goldensncoffee wrote:I'm not getting any drying aftertaste. This could be because it's not there or my palate is not trained enough to detect something like this.


The first rule of cupping is to learn to listen to your own senses. It could be that some of the drying sensation I was getting was just a hint of underdevelopment in my roast as compared to yours, which was perceptible mainly in the finish; the only way to know for sure would be to cup both side by side and see which tastes sweeter in the aftertaste. As I said before, I'm planning to dry some slightly deeper roasts of this soon, and I will be sure to post some notes of a side-by-side tasting.

It is also possible that I've been spoiling my palate with all the hyper-sweet coffees I've been drinking lately. Between the Yemen Haraaz Red Cherry, the Gakui Embu Peaberry, and the Yirgacheffe Janbar, I've been getting used to a ton of sweetness in the cup. Spend too much time drinking 93+ coffees and you can start to get a pretty warped perspective on what "drying" might mean.

Goldensncoffee wrote:In general, does a longer (say 5-6min compared to a 4 min) drying phase increase sweetness? Is there certain beans that do better with a longer dry/shorter dry? Why a longer dry for a Dry-processed bean?


Based on my experience, I'd say the biggest virtue of an extending drying period, as a general matter, is that it allows you to spend less time in development without getting unripe, "bright bitter" flavors. This lets me get a fruitier, less-roasty cup without it tasting unripe. Whether it is sweeter is to some extent a matter of perception; I tend to think of slower-start, faster-finish roasts as having less caramel-like sweetness and more simple sugar/fruit-like sweetness. Which approach I prefer varies depending on what else the bean has to offer, but as a general rule I tend to like a lighter finish on a very clean, fruity Ethiopian like this one.

The fact that this bean was dry-processed is part of why I took a slower overall approach to all three phases, including drying. Naturals tend to scorch more easily than washed coffees, and so I try not to apply too much heat. With a dense, high-quality Kenyan I might open the gas all the way during the first half of ramp and push it through in less than three minutes; if I tried that with this coffee, I'm pretty sure I'd end up with a burned mess.

Goldensncoffee wrote:It seems the shorter ramp in R2 really let this bean shine. I think I will try to get the ramp a little faster on the next roast. Anything else you all would recommend I try by looking at my graph? I know it's whats in the cup thats important but I'll take any advice you can give me.


Overall that second roast profile looks pretty good to me. I've heard Tom say that the Quest fairs well with a shorter than usual development window; you might play around with mimicking some of the profiles he's posted for Ethiopian naturals and see if you like the results. And I think you are right to think that a faster ramp might be worth trying as a comparison.
LMWDP #435

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TomC
Team HB

Postby TomC » Jan 03, 2015, 11:07 pm

Goldensncoffee wrote:In general, does a longer (say 5-6min compared to a 4 min) drying phase increase sweetness? Is there certain beans that do better with a longer dry/shorter dry? Why a longer dry for a Dry-processed bean?


Just a comment about dry processed coffee and extended drying phases (relative to a washed coffee). The extension of the drying phase can help prepare the mixed density found specifically in dry processed coffee moving into first crack and throughout it's development. Schooley discusses it quite well and how doing this can improve cup clarity, especially in fruity coffees.

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[creative nickname]

Postby [creative nickname] » Jan 04, 2015, 12:59 am

TomC wrote:Just a comment about dry processed coffee and extended drying phases (relative to a washed coffee). The extension of the drying phase can help prepare the mixed density found specifically in dry processed coffee moving into first crack and throughout it's development. Schooley discusses it quite well and how doing this can improve cup clarity, especially in fruity coffees.


That article is definitely worth a close read. For what it's worth, in my roaster 5:30 of drying time led to a reasonably consolidated first-crack window with this coffee. It would be interesting to see if a longer drying window would have made it even tighter.
LMWDP #435

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keno

Postby keno » Jan 06, 2015, 1:53 am

This is my first official roast and learn on HB. However, I have been fortunate enough to get together informally with some other local Portland HBers occassionally to share some roasting experiences. I have learned a lot from that so I thought I'd give this forum a try as well.

Just got my 10 pound bag of Ethiopian Gedeo Worka from Klatch this afternoon. When I opened it I was impressed by the uniformity of the bean size for a DP Ethiopian. My wife and I were also enthralled by the smell of the greens, which have the distinct aroma of blueberries. I've smelled that in roasted coffee before but never in the greens.

In preparation for my first roast I read the thread and also the very helpful Schooley article referenced by Tom above about roasting DP coffees.

Here are the details for my first roast:
Roaster: Huky 500
Charge weight: 300 g
Charge temp: 360 F
Dry end: 5:20 @ 313 F
FC: 8:24 @ 383 F
Drop: 10:24 @ 421 F
Moisture loss: 14.7%

The roast itself went quite well I thought until about 7 minutes in when I started to notice some chaff smoke so I increased the air slightly. In the Huky this has the effect of drawing more heat into the drum. Normally I would adjust down the heat at the same time to compensate, but I decided to sit tight since I had just read the following in the Schooley article: "One of the most common mistakes made with DP coffees is pulling back much too early once the 1st Crack is engaged."

Unfortunately, I think, the MET (ET) jumped up a bit and the RoR which had been nicely declining ticked up as you can see in the roast profile below. I started pulling back on the heat as soon as I noticed this but the roast took off. The good thing is that I got a very boisterous FC, but I thought that I was not going to have sufficient time for this roast to develop if I stopped it at my planned 415 F, so I let it go a bit further to about 421 F.

Image

In hindsight I think I maybe could've dropped it a bit earlier and had sufficient development, but this gives me a good baseline for future roasts where I will experiment with going a little lighter and extending development more. I'm also thinking of using a slightly lower charge temp. When I have roasted other DP Ethiopians I have always been struck by how unevenly they roast but the result here was surprisingly even, perhaps because of the uniformity of the bean size. I ground a few grams to sample the aromas and got fairly strong berries, but not quite as strong as an Ethiopian Lekempti that I recently roasted. Looking forward to tasting this after a few days rest, but in the meantime comments and suggestions about my roast profile are welcome.

Definitely looking forward to playing around with this coffee and learning from others experiences here as well!

dogjamboree

Postby dogjamboree » Jan 08, 2015, 1:31 pm

I roasted 4 initial "sample roasts" of this coffee, but posting the best one (the others had a higher drop temperature which turned out to mute too much of the fruitiness).

Roaster: Santoker Revolution 500
Charge Mass: 150g
Charge Temp: ~150c
Dry/Ramp/Development: 4:28/3:41/0:57
FC start temp: 203.8c
Finish temp: 213.8c
Moisture Loss:14%

Note: Event markers in the Artisan graph are indications of gas (P) and damper (F) changes using the hotkey feature Marko implemented starting in Artisan version .9

Something strange I noticed on this roast was that FC came quite a bit later than normal for me on all the roasts I tried -- between 203-204c. FC times are usually really consistent for me across coffees, usually ranging closer to 199-202c. FC didn't last longer than normal though (I don't usually mark FC end time). I may try extending my drying time to see if this changes anything.

I didn't take detailed cupping notes for this roast but the primary flavors I tasted were bittersweet chocolate and blueberries. I also tasted some funky fermented notes, but this was only about 18 hours post-roast so I'm expecting these to fade. This roast has a lot of body and sweetness, enough that I'm sure I can take it lighter without ending up with something too thin. No ashiness or smoky flavors are present, but I'm thinking I took this 2-3c too far, as there's too much chocolate and not enough fruit.

I'll post more results after my next roast.


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