Quest owners - preheating and drying phase - Page 4

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
dale_cooper (original poster)
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#31: Post by dale_cooper (original poster) »

Very interesting Sam - thanks again! I'd actually argue my roasts have considerably more energy than your old setup did. You had big energy drop off during maillard and entered FC with very low energy (the exact scenario I was saying would occur). Not that I do this often but these quest profiles where the energy in development is that low; it'd be very difficult to even get to 2nd crack without having an increasing ROR. This would be more visible if the scale of our profiles were aligned. If you look at the profile I did tonight (170g), high heat/high fan - driving the quest and keeping MET under control isn't too bad at all. I generally roast 180g like this without issue. I've simply been trying to explore low fan to see how it can influence flavors and if it would keep my MET lower. To your point, I'm really not sure what a high MET actually affects. Sometimes my beans smell toasty but that fades after 24 hours.

Question when you say fan 1.5 - you don't mean 1.5 on the dial do you? You're just calling it 1.5, 2.5, 3.5 for a reason familiar to you? Example: My fan doesn't turn on till 2.5 on the dial, and max airflow is 8.2 I think? Did you ever try a higher fan approach from the start? Would be interested in how that cups for you.

I've contemplated the insulation and black paint - not sure which I would want to do first.

Again - really appreciate you helping me think this through.

samuellaw178
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#32: Post by samuellaw178 »

dale_cooper wrote: I'd actually argue my roasts have considerably more energy than your old setup did.
I don't disagree with that! But also keep in mind I adjusted my wattage lower so that is to be expected. I wasn't trying to go second crack and was aiming for light roasts. It's a lot easier to lose heat (downward adjustment) than gaining heat (upward adjustment), just the nature of it.

The heat adjustment isn't linear and we only have a really narrow range to work with, ie 900 watt is very different to 1000 watt (can be a difference between an OK roast and a dragged out roast). Your latest roast was almost on P10 for the majority of the roast (assuming that was 1000 watt) I would've gotten really high MET with that on my previous setup.

Question when you say fan 1.5 - you don't mean 1.5 on the dial do you?
Indeed I am referring to what's on the dial. I think each Quest can be different that's why it gets a bit dodgy trying to compare different roasters without fully knowing the context (just like comparing grind setting numbers). So as I said, 1.5 is where the fan starts turning (really about 1.1-1.2 ish). Above 3.5 the fan just sounds and feels like it's on full blast.
dale_cooper wrote:Did you ever try a higher fan approach from the start? Would be interested in how that cups for you.
I thought I did, but couldn't find a log for that. I must have done that when I was still learning the roasters. Personally I think the fan on Quest is quite wimpy. It's likely to be fine for the roast even if you're on full blast from the start (think popcorn popper or fluid bed roaster).

Right now after the mods(and probably the Monolith also helps with the extraction side), every roasts has been good and it's really hard to screw up (with no major defects, and generally rather sweet/juicy and clear). It's really just down to fine-tuning to taste preference (adjusting the drop temp for different roast levels to bring out different perspective). I don't reckon I've improved much in technique (quite the opposite I am getting sloppier with less adjustment, and less attention to MET & charge temp) :oops: , but likely the copper tube mod and generally lower MET made it really forgiving.
I've contemplated the insulation and black paint - not sure which I would want to do first.
Unless you need a larger batch, the mods aren't really necessary. After the mods, it can and will feel like a new roaster, so you need to spend some time learning again (though a much shorter learning curve in my experience)

Bunkmil
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#33: Post by Bunkmil »

dale_cooper wrote:
I've contemplated the insulation and black paint - not sure which I would want to do first.
Yeah me too. I think I'm going to start with the insulation. It just look easier to do since you don't have to disassemble the whole roaster. I'll see after if I need to paint the drum.

Samuel did you do the two mods at the same time or did you start with one and then feeling the second one was also necessary ?

samuellaw178
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#34: Post by samuellaw178 replying to Bunkmil »

Hi David,

I did them at almost the same time. I did the black drum first and roasted two sessions (3-4 back to back batches). It felt like a different roaster, but I did not immediately feel it was better. Before I got on further on the learning curve, I gave it a thought and decided it was worth making the Quest to utilize its heat more efficiently (since I am embarking on a learning curve anyway). If my memories serve me right, the first roasts right off the bat (with the two mods) were good enough, and it's easier to drive the Quest without needing to put in a lot of unnecessary heat (lower watt). I've never looked back since, and it only got better with minor tweak in technique (mainly learning when to make heat adjustment before the first crack to get where I want).

Bunkmil
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#35: Post by Bunkmil »

I haven't received my insulation material yet but I painted the drum.

You can see that the MET stays already lower with this mod. I haven't nailed my profile yet but here are my last roasts:




Bunkmil
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#36: Post by Bunkmil »

Ok I just got my insulation material and now my Quest M3s is a totally different roaster.

Here's my first batch with the insulation. I did not even go above 900W of power and I have been able to roast an 8oz batch under 9 min with a decent MET!

I need to learn how to drive this new thing ;)


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EddyQ
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#37: Post by EddyQ »

Bunkmil wrote:Ok I just got my insulation material and now my Quest M3s is a totally different roaster.
I'm curious what insulation you used. The Quest M3s has a double wall, which I assume is where you installed a blanket of insulation.
LMWDP #671

Bunkmil
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#38: Post by Bunkmil »

I used something like this : https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2707882116.

I wrapped it under the squirrel cage and I immediately noticed a difference.

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cuppajoe
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#39: Post by cuppajoe »

I've been using a first version M3 for a couple of years now after using a Behmor+ for awhile. Picked it up second hand and it came with erics probes and a TC4C sketched for roastlogger. The only thing I've done to it besides cleaning was to zero out the fan knob and adding quick disconnects to the fan leads to facilitate disassembly for cleaning, Also rearranged fasteners to make removing the fan bracket easy for cleaning. Depending on the coffee, cleaning is performed about every 8 pounds. I use a Killawatt to adjust according to watts, rather than amps.

I usually roast 2 pounds a session in four batches back to back, usually two 8 oz batches of the same coffee. This is good for about 2 weeks depending on how much I give away. My roasting preference is a bit lighter than traditional Italian and have never done 3rd wave. I ran into the routine I use in an old thread here and have been happy with the results.

After setting up the roaster for a session, I run it at 1000w with the fan on low while weighing the coffee and getting things set up. When the temp reaches about 350f I drop the wattage to 600.
At 400f I charge 8oz of beans and leave the chute door open, fan still on low.
When the temp ramps back up to 250f I adjust the wattage to 1k, and after 90 seconds crank the fan to high and close the chute door.
At 345f the wattage is dropped back to 600, and after 90 seconds the fan back to low.
About this time 1st crack starts and from now on it's seat-of-the-pants. I just listen for 1st crack to end and start watching the beans in both the window and the trier. Usually they look ready just when 2nd crack starts or slightly before. When they look ready I turn the wattage all the way down and the fan full on to suck out chafe.
After dropping the beans they go into the cooling position and I start stirring with a small balloon whisk. While doing that I close the drop door and keep an eye on the temps for the next batch, adjusting wattage and door accordingly. When the beans are cool enough to handle, they get dumped in a colander and the chafe collector swept and the filter cleaned.

So far the batches have been quite consistent and uniform. I tend to bounce around with coffee varietals, so by pretty much sticking to the same general profile I'm mostly tasting the differences in the coffees themselves.
David - LMWDP 448

My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits

dale_cooper (original poster)
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#40: Post by dale_cooper (original poster) »

Just to add to this thread. Adding a copper pipe has DRAMATICALLY changed the way my quest behaves (more than the m3s drum did). The interaction with BT and MET is now quite interesting and I can't figure it out yet (not enough roasts). The quest seems slower to react to changes, but MET stays much more in check. I'm finding it difficult to course correct if my BT starts getting low. Conventional wisdom would be to increase amps to add heat, but I swear I can increase BT ROR later on in the roast by dropping amps. If I keep amps higher or increase later in the roast (trying to course correct), MET will creep up with no effect on BT. Basically, the quest is a different roaster depending upon which generation you have, and what mods you've added.


Sidenote - its an interesting that coffee shrub lists the quest m3 ideal batch size as 120g. Looking at a couple recent things they posted, their personal batch size is around 95g. I finally tried roasting 120g batch (I'm usually 150-190g) - phew, THAT is how to do fast roasts if I want to. Plenty of power and also the ability to have higher TP temps. Almost makes me want to roast in those lower batches on a regular basis. Speaking of which, I'm convinced high drop temps or quick dry has absolutely nothing to do with tipping beans. This last batch was an ethi natural that had a TP at 240F (yeah, whoa) - no tipping whatsoever. Like others have indicated, tipping seems to be a result of quick ramp in maillard combined with fast finish.

I've been playing with the quicker dry, longer maillard, and going into first with a bit less energy, but potentially staying in that dev phase longer. I'm still not sure where beans like to be entering first in the quest. I used to enter first at 18-20F and finish pretty quick having an average ROR of 12-15f. Now I'm playing with entering lower, and having an average ROR of 7-10, but staying in there longer.