Mexican Nayarita Organic Washed - Roast and Learn Together - Page 5

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
pcofftenyo

Postby pcofftenyo » Mar 07, 2019, 11:29 am

Thanks for continuing to post your results as I've been following with interest.

I'm a little surprised that Chert liked his shortest roast the best (966) and that the longer roasts by him and others were deemed sub-par.

What I would consider to be a high charge, very large change from charge temp to TP, middle gas and fan at charge, off heat pretty early and steadily through the roast. Short malliard 30 sec less than TP to yellow. Really long development.

Maybe the 510 gram mass had something to do with it too.

EddyQ

Postby EddyQ » Mar 07, 2019, 12:34 pm

Moxiechef wrote:Here's two of mine, one at FC @ 8:21 and another at FC @ 9:36. Both crashed hard.


Interesting. Really crash stuff for sure. But also notice where most your added delay is. Dry end is 45 seconds later with the second roast. This does show dry phase lengthening has no significant impact. I think more real drying occurs after dry end. Maybe longer Malliard would help?

I'm simply asking because I believe there may be a path to reducing or eliminating crashes by more moisture removal before FCs. It may not have a positive impact on taste. That is someone else's theory.

Moxiechef

Postby Moxiechef » replying to EddyQ » Mar 07, 2019, 2:48 pm

Do you have a recommend time for the three phases? End temp/roast level?

I've got plenty of beans left to try.

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Chert

Postby Chert » replying to Moxiechef » Mar 07, 2019, 3:16 pm

It looks like you are extending the length of roast pretty well with the gas settings of the 2/17 12:57 roast. (2nd one on previous page). I suggest you take that approach, but at 45 sec prior to start of 1C cut to 25 and hold that for a minute. Maybe cut back from there to try to hold progression without flick. Don't goose the heat at the start of 1C. Maybe that approach would lessen flick and still get you close to 2C by 28% total dev. I would try one roast like that at 25% and the other trying hard to get to start of 2C. I am trying with the natural of this origin, I have no more of the washed.

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chuckcoffee

Postby chuckcoffee » Mar 07, 2019, 7:50 pm

Ok I roasted over the weekend before the cold temps came in. Did 4 roasts (1 lb each)
- Mx 145 Drop 414
- Mx 146 Drop 422
- Kenyan AB 147
- Guat Huehuetenango 148 Drop 415

I tried a couple different end points with the Mx. I cupped them all tonite 4 days off roast. My Guat was on top followed by the Kenyan, and the Mx 145, and last Mx 146

The Mx both had light sweetness but more 1 dimensional with the 146 having some astrigency. In comparison the Guat was a fruit front to back. My profiles for these roast were the outcome of
- 1 min 5 KPA
- 275 started scaling back gas so that at 370 was in the 1-2 KPA range. The Guat was similar except I bumped it up a min around 360

No chocolate but maybe that will come.

On pourover similar for 145 vs the Guat. I'm going to let the Mx sit for another 3-4 days before putting back into both pourover and espresso.

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EddyQ

Postby EddyQ » Mar 07, 2019, 8:54 pm

Chert wrote:I suggest you take that approach, but at 45 sec prior to start of 1C cut to 25 and hold that for a minute. Maybe cut back from there to try to hold progression without flick. Don't goose the heat at the start of 1C. Maybe that approach would lessen flick and still get you close to 2C by 28% total dev. I would try one roast like that at 25% and the other trying hard to get to start of 2C. I am trying with the natural of this origin, I have no more of the washed.


I'm thinking this suggestion may help. Below I attempted to draw your profile with changes. Notice the longer Malliard, lower RoR during Malliard and the ET is not peaking much over 400F. Now, you know your roaster better than I do. This low ET and RoR being this low may cause a stall and bake the coffee. So take this suggest at your own risk. :wink:
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Moxiechef

Postby Moxiechef » Mar 07, 2019, 9:12 pm

Chert wrote:It looks like you are extending the length of roast pretty well with the gas settings of the 2/17 12:57 roast. (2nd one on previous page). I suggest you take that approach, but at 45 sec prior to start of 1C cut to 25 and hold that for a minute. Maybe cut back from there to try to hold progression without flick. Don't goose the heat at the start of 1C. Maybe that approach would lessen flick and still get you close to 2C by 28% total dev. I would try one roast like that at 25% and the other trying hard to get to start of 2C. I am trying with the natural of this origin, I have no more of the washed.


I don't think that worked out well for me.I gave up after the crash.
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Chert

Postby Chert » replying to Moxiechef » Mar 08, 2019, 2:03 am

Indeed, the crash was just intensified. Sorry my suggestion was not effective.

15 F/min decline in the first minute of 1C compared to 10 or so with the earlier roasts.

How does a higher charge temperature typically work with your roaster? Or at this charge temperature, firing up the gas a bit earlier? Compared to the 4 F/min decline (if I read the graph correctly) that I see on average up to 1C, if your peak RoR is earlier and you come into 1C with a bit lower RoR, what effect might that have?

A question a bit off topic and maybe discussed elsewhere: Does a lesser bean mass accentuate a dip or crash? Since the probe measures bean mass (ie air and beans, would a less crowded bean mass increase cooling of surrounding air?

Moxiechef

Postby Moxiechef » replying to Chert » Mar 08, 2019, 8:28 am

Interesting that you asked about a hotter charge. That's what I tried next with a gas dip since it had helped a little in the other roast. I also think that First Crack might be starting a little sooner than I'm marking.

I let this go to Second Crack, just to see if I could get something different out of these beans versus my other roast but geez, could it have taken any longer!! I'm sure that brewing for espresso vs. drip definitely doesn't help to make these beans more palatable for me. I don't think they are of SO quality.

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AlexGS

Postby AlexGS » Mar 08, 2019, 11:43 am

I attempted to roast it again last weekend. I roasted it light with FC at around 10min and dropped at 1:40m after FC.
The coffee has clean taste with no roast defects but... it tastes like buckwheat. I can drink it as latte but would never have bought it for that taste.