Mexican Nayarita Organic Washed - Roast and Learn Together - Page 2

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
AlexGS

Postby AlexGS » Feb 17, 2019, 4:40 pm

Chert wrote:@AlexGS Was your roast a little beyond end of 1C or more than a little? I would think based on time and temperature than you were post 1C at drop.


That is correct. It crashed so I dropped it just past end of FC.

I did a 3 more roasts with 150g batches, all crashed. I pushed one in to SC and then pulled a shot. This one was promising because of no obvious off-tastes. But then again, I roasted 2 150g batches of Chiapas, which supposed to be similar to these. Chiapas smells better and tastes better with no grainy aftertaste. Now it's waiting game. Hope it will get better in a couple of days.

AlexGS

Postby AlexGS » Feb 17, 2019, 4:53 pm

Chert wrote:Can light roasts like that have roastiness? I suppose so but is that an taste in the bean or something else?


In my case the roastiness tasted more like burnt sugar, that is why I assumed that it got scorched. But the grainines this is in the bean. I fell same notes in many other coffees but in this case it's super pronounced.

Cafeneo

Postby Cafeneo » Feb 17, 2019, 5:06 pm

Mine was dropped just past fc finish. I brewed literally within 10 min of finishing roast — Got too excited there.
Most of my roasts are to similar stage and I often get a slight roasty/char note in first day or two. As I said, clearly the crash /flick played prob had something to do with it.

But holy crashy bean YES! All mine crashed hard as well, and the one I shared was the best of the bunch. HA!

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Chert

Postby Chert » Feb 17, 2019, 8:28 pm

How did my cupping mentioned here go? It was a good learning experience. Of the Nayarita I wrote peanut >> toasted nut >, chocolate, some musty in the grounds. I don't think those are tastes that would make me choose to roast this coffee to the lesser range of development and I will hold on to the sample to compare to some roasts I will do this coming week or next weekend of this coffee with further development. Of today's session, just to try to ID these very different coffees roasted light was a challenge (I got 3/5 correct) so I have more to learn.

Here are two videos I looked at after the cupping, maybe I'll pull out the form that SCAA uses next time or make a similar one. But 5 cups of each! I definitely should grab a frothing picture to spit in.

A Trish Rothgeb video about SCAA cupping and James Hoffman about tasting for deliciousness

happycat

Postby happycat » Feb 17, 2019, 10:32 pm

How about charging way hotter? The ETs in the graph seem quite low with a lot of tweaking up and down in concert with the BT. A much hotter ET that is maintained more flat along the roast might help. You can bleed off energy as needed but you'll have way more to prevent crashes. Maybe it's a dense bean?
LMWDP #603

edpiep

Postby edpiep » Feb 17, 2019, 11:42 pm

Chert wrote:How did my cupping mentioned here go? It was a good learning experience. Of the Nayarita I wrote peanut >> toasted nut >, chocolate, some musty in the grounds. I don't think those are tastes that would make me choose to roast this coffee to the lesser range of development and I will hold on to the sample to compare to some roasts I will do this coming week or next weekend of this coffee with further development. Of today's session, just to try to ID these very different coffees roasted light was a challenge (I got 3/5 correct) so I have more to learn.

Here are two videos I looked at after the cupping, maybe I'll pull out the form that SCAA uses next time or make a similar one. But 5 cups of each! I definitely should grab a frothing picture to spit in. [/url]


5 cups of each is just standard SCA cupping procedure. In a lab setting it's necessary to have 5 cups of the same coffee from the same sample roast so as to spot potential defects in a broader spectrum. If 1 cup of the 5 has a defect and it's scored to include that defect, the whole score will be significantly impacted in a bad way. Most of the stuff we buy is already pre-cupped and defect free but occasionally you can get a minor hint of something in a cupping, like that "musty" note you mentioned, could be nothing, it could be mold (doubt it) or just a nice essence of jute. It seems this coffee is best suited for blending anyway. The cup score it was given via SCAA on the listing was 81-83 and coffees in that range don't possess dynamic flavors that would show in a lighter roast.

Using the SCA cupping form is always a good exercise IMO, plus the frothing pitcher :D

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Chert

Postby Chert » Feb 18, 2019, 12:06 am

I think those are good points.

cupping, I use 10 g coffee 160 grams water per cup and so to cup 3-5 coffees and more than one cup of each requires pretty quickly a significant setup in terms of cups, brew water boiler capacity and time. And even so, my palate probably isn't up to the task of sussing out uniformity among 5 10 g brew lots of the same roast. In the video of Ms. Rothgeb, she is cupping productions roasts apparently but talks about an outlier cup in one group of 5 that poored that one down in the uniformity aspect.

Some Roast and Learns are about getting the most out of a high scoring coffee and I think it is worthwhile to try to learn how to get the most out of a lower scoring coffee. Blending strategies could also be a good point of learning and discussion.

edpiep

Postby edpiep » Feb 18, 2019, 3:11 pm

IMO, this coffee is a great one to roast for the reasons you stated. I wish I could be a part of it but I still have some other green I need to roast up :) I was sharing where and why the 5 cup standard is implemented simply as perspective. That being said I don't go about cupping at home that way since the coffee is usually pre-screened by importers to ensure there are no defects in the shipment. Now if one does 5 different roasts of the same coffee and cups those roasts to learn how each roast affects different parts of the coffee's attributes (for better or worse); that is a great way to see where a coffee can really "fit the bill".

Happy roasting, I have learned a lot from the R & L's posted on here by proxy and think they are very helpful. Thanks for keeping them coming!

pcofftenyo

Postby pcofftenyo » Feb 18, 2019, 4:00 pm

I have too much in my stash now to get in on this. I really appreciate watching them and have learned a lot.

I have been experimenting with a series of soft and low elevation beans from 3 different continents to hone my roasting skills. And because I'm a little tired of fruity African's.

All of them were crashy every time. Dark centers with lighter exteriors, say 60% smooth surface at drop. Tasted horrible.

Had to be less aggressive temp wise at charge and used 75% 1min in instead of max heat. Stayed on it longer (yellow) before cutting to 50% at 170C then 25% at 190C. Less aggressive fan increases too as I was pulling too much heat through them pre-yellow and too much heat out during 1C.

Roasts were slower: 12:30- 13:30 vs 9:30-10:30 but this cut out the crash.

Good luck.

Cafeneo

Postby Cafeneo » Feb 19, 2019, 8:56 am

happycat wrote:How about charging way hotter? The ETs in the graph seem quite low with a lot of tweaking up and down in concert with the BT. A much hotter ET that is maintained more flat along the roast might help. You can bleed off energy as needed but you'll have way more to prevent crashes. Maybe it's a dense bean?


I tried charging hotter yesterday thinking along the same lines... but still crashed. Ill share the profile soon. Yes its a dense bean ... by my crude measurements 0.695/0.7 g/ml (-ish).

By my limited knowledge I think prolonging maillard to help drive off moisture would be wise. My theory is that this would limit the high exothermic state that occurs at FC and likely causes the tendency to crash.